Lifeguards For Life
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yes, you have to squeeze the bag.... A BVM does not function quite the same way as a NRB
Quick asthma scenario q from school...
- Thread starter bunkie
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yes, you have to squeeze the bag.... A BVM does not function quite the same way as a NRB
Melclin
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I was wondering because when we want to give ~100% (used also for vents of all kinds) we use our closed circuit gear. Its like what you'd see in a OR with in and out paths on the mask and a separate balloon style bag. You can breath spontaneously through them and gauge the resps by how much the bag infates/deflates etc.
I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone else use these?
Unless you're using different BVM to us you really don't want to put one on a person who is trying to spontaneously breath. Try it out yourself. It bloody hard work. Even for a healthy person.
VENT: Whats this about posts being deleted for being to technical? Thats BS! Are you serious? Tell me where too complain and I'll scream like a banshee.
I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone else use these?
Unless you're using different BVM to us you really don't want to put one on a person who is trying to spontaneously breath. Try it out yourself. It bloody hard work. Even for a healthy person.
VENT: Whats this about posts being deleted for being to technical? Thats BS! Are you serious? Tell me where too complain and I'll scream like a banshee.
One of the asthma threads got wiped out
mycrofft
Still crazy but elsewhere
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Vent, don't get discouraged. Good stuff there.
Here's .02$:
Oxygen ported pocket or rescue masks: Their plastic goes bad, stock plain ones and BVM's. If you have room for a cylinder you have room for a BVM. BE SURE TO HAVE AIRWAYS, BVM's are remarkably more effective with them. (NOTE: most BVM masks and pocket masks are interchangeable, same sized fitting).
Always weigh treatment and condition against time. What time frame do you have, how fragile is the pt, how fast will ths tx work and how long to do it?
Don't do anything silly parenterally.
If the pt is not crashing but is caught early, a calm patient in a cool (not cold) dry (not arid) environment can turn around for the better. Yelling, barging around and cutting/ripping/jumping are not conducive to this.
PS: Suspect pt of having put their metered dose inhaler on "full auto" before you arrived and loaded themselves with rescue or daily agent. I've seen pt's killed by alupent OD when their problem wasn't asthma but CAD and they self-DX/Rx'ed.
Here's .02$:
Oxygen ported pocket or rescue masks: Their plastic goes bad, stock plain ones and BVM's. If you have room for a cylinder you have room for a BVM. BE SURE TO HAVE AIRWAYS, BVM's are remarkably more effective with them. (NOTE: most BVM masks and pocket masks are interchangeable, same sized fitting).
Always weigh treatment and condition against time. What time frame do you have, how fragile is the pt, how fast will ths tx work and how long to do it?
Don't do anything silly parenterally.
If the pt is not crashing but is caught early, a calm patient in a cool (not cold) dry (not arid) environment can turn around for the better. Yelling, barging around and cutting/ripping/jumping are not conducive to this.
PS: Suspect pt of having put their metered dose inhaler on "full auto" before you arrived and loaded themselves with rescue or daily agent. I've seen pt's killed by alupent OD when their problem wasn't asthma but CAD and they self-DX/Rx'ed.
Since you two seem to think I'm out of my mind, I will quote from the American Red Cross. This is on pg. 77 of the CPR for the professional rescuer book:
So, as usual, everyone goes flying off the handle around here... Feel free to say the ARC got it wrong, but according to them, you DO NOT have to squeeze the BVM for it to work if the patient is breathing on his or her own.
Did you not read my post?
Originally Posted by VentMedic
Unless you are carrying an Ayres, Jackson Reese or anesthesia type bag, just placing a self inflating bag on their face can be called suffication. There must be a tight seal and they must be able to generate between -20 to -40 cmH2O of pressure to open the valve and receive oxygen.
Know how your equipment works before you use it to determine if it is the CORRECT equipment and the CORRECT use for that patient.
Do not assume you can use the "self inflating" BVM for every patient as you have described. You can fatique and stress them to failure or worse.
The BVM and the very basic principles of its function should have been discussed in your EMT class. If the use of the basic tools are not known, the EMT then has a serious problem as their school's training has failed them.
Melclin
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True in theory, but its actually pretty hard to get right in such a way as it makes the problem better. Get a mate to try and vent you comfortably. Its not easy.
Give it a shot on yourself...and you'll see that its BS. Unless of course you're using a different kind of BVM which seems unlikely.
Would have posted in the other thread but its a little scary there right now.
Last night during a scenario I was an asthma pt, 9 on my pain scale. Wheezing, struggling to breathe. Inadequate respiration's.
Now, should I not have been treated with a BVM? Because my girl gave me a NRM and the evaluator never said anything about it being wrong. We've been taught if its adequate, NRB. If its inadequate, BVM. So now I'm confused.
Thanks in Advance.
Depends...we're you altered and not maintaining your airway at the time?
No, I missed it, but I see it now that you made it bigger and in color!
I'm not saying you can use it for every patient. But there are circumstances in which a BVM can be used for a breathing patient without squeezing the bag to assist them in breathing. Or you can gently squeeze the bag to help them. Or, if they stop breathing, you can use the bag to breathe for them in the "normal" way. All of those are valid uses of the BVM, no? I was only saying, in response to a post that I have forgotten now, that you can use a BVM to deliver 100% O2 to a patient, breathing or not. I will gladly add the caveat, "under certain circumstances."
mycrofft
Still crazy but elsewhere
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On older BVM's straight through O2 was a physical possibility.
Not those filled wsith foam, though.
The "reservoir" does not have to fill on simple cheaper BVM's for oxygen to come through, but it will need to displace the ambient air in the bag (not reservoir) before the pt gets much benefit. I think the pt, if anxious and conscious, is going to take the bag and throw it at you first. BVM to rescusitate, mask to oxygenate.
It is a sign of progress that the old suggestions of the rescuer wearing a nasal cannula to use a rescue mask in order to deliver more O2 has not surfaced here!
PS: I've fixed, bought and used these for years, I know wherefrom I speak.
Not those filled wsith foam, though.
The "reservoir" does not have to fill on simple cheaper BVM's for oxygen to come through, but it will need to displace the ambient air in the bag (not reservoir) before the pt gets much benefit. I think the pt, if anxious and conscious, is going to take the bag and throw it at you first. BVM to rescusitate, mask to oxygenate.
It is a sign of progress that the old suggestions of the rescuer wearing a nasal cannula to use a rescue mask in order to deliver more O2 has not surfaced here!
PS: I've fixed, bought and used these for years, I know wherefrom I speak.
Had an airway and was A&Ox4. I want to make sure I'm doing it the right way when I'm out there.
A NRB is appropriate the initial action in this situation.
Agreed yes, if you are unable to neb atrovent or salbutamol and the patient is conscious then a NRB is appropriate.
Thanks Rescue and MrBrown.
We did resp emergencies in the book last night and a lot of the confusion was cleared up as well.Thanks Rescue and MrBrown.
You are welcome..and sorry about the typos!
See what nice gets us?? Ask and ye shall receive ^_^