private vehicles

[jbrooksEMTangel]

i live in new york state and we have alot of different rules and regs in our volunteer fire dept.
my question,do you think its a good idea for an EMT-b to carry his own bag in his private vehicle? he wants to beable to carry 02,glucose,asprin,epi pen,. i myseld dont feel comfortable with it,we are having a meeting tonight about this and maybe im wrong but what if the patient is allergic to asprin? what if something goes wrong while he is administring anything on his own before the squad gets there? what if he gets in a car wreck with an O2 tank in his car? does all this come back to the fire dept? we are a volunteer dept and we do not transport, we are thinking about getting back into transporting as the private ambulance service pulled out. just need your opinions on this. thanks

 

[jbrooksEMTangel]

myspace

i just started a myspace..please take a look and join. http://www.myspace.com/emtjackie

 

[skyemt]

also in ny state... we carry jump kits in our private vehicles... collars, bandages, bleeding control, airways, steth. and cuff to take vitals, oral glucose, etc... basically what would make sense to use to stabilize a pt before the rig arrives...

but no meds that could possible cause adverse reactions...

hope that helps.

 

[firecoins]

I am baffaled that you would be carrying most of that stuff in your personal vehicle.
You need gloves, a cpr mask, some 4x4, 5x9s, tape and thats it. I have found several MVAs off duty and I all I used were gloves and my cell phone. Responding units supplied everything else. You want to get kinky? Get a bp cuff and take vital signs.

you don't give meds unless you ask if they are allergic. There's no reason to be giving aspirin off duty. You can recommend that to a person having a MI but don't push anything.

Diabetes? can of coke if conscious. Nothing else you can do. Your not going to start an IV and push D50.

MVA? hold c-spine or have other bystanders do so and assess all the patients. Tell 911 what they need. All collars, backboards etc will be brought by an ambulance.

broken limb? hold it stabile. use a couple of triangular bandages. The responding ambulance will do the rest.

 

[skyemt]

Firecoins, why so negative?

first off, we are a volunteer agency, so there is no "off duty"...
secondly, in a somewhat rural area, it can be a little time before the rig gets there...

i agree with you about the meds... but a can of coke? oral glucose is preferred for many reasons, why would you have a problem with that?

and i have been on scene when having an airway was very helpful, as was being able control bleeding and bandage before the rig arrives...

or would you just have us sit there for 10 minutes and let him bleed?

really, i don't see why you are so judgemental... it takes nothing to have a jump kit in the car, and i don't think you can say it's not helpful.

 

[medic001918]

A couple of things, the first is you're listed as a "student." I wouldn't recommend stopping and rendering anything more than first aid until you have a certification. And certainly don't ever introduce yourself as an EMT-B or any other kind of certified responder unless are are certified/licensed in your state as one.

Next, you really don't need to have a large jump kit for these scenarios. Personal vehicles needlessly tie up scene's. If you come across an accident, simply call it in so the proper services can be sent and provide a decent scene size up to make sure they know what to send.

I'm just really not an advocate of people responding in their personal vehicles. It causes a large liability and risk that people often don't understand the scope of (legally, insurance, traffic, etc.).

As far as volunteer's never being "off duty," if you're not on the scheduled shift then you would be considered off duty. You're on duty when you're in uniform and on an actual response vehicle within your services guidelines. I'm a paramedic at work. Off duty, I'm nothing more than a first responder. Most of the time though, I'm not even that. I simply call things in if I see them and let the appropriate services handle their calls. I don't want to interject myself into a liability needlessly.

Shane
NREMT-P

 

[medicdan]

We have had a whole bunch of long, involved discussions about personal vehicles responding to scenes, personal jump kits, liability at these scenes, the role of students at these scenes, the most recent being about a month ago. I suggest you search for topics from the past-- they are very informative.

Good Luck!

DES

 

[skyemt]

listen, you guys are too much...

firstly, i am not a student, i'm an EMT.

we don't have shifts... whoever can respond the fastest does... we only have shifts between 8p and 6a...

so you would rather a pt sit alone for an extra ten minutes because my personal car on a non-busy road bothers you?

you are clearly not familiar with our type of setup, which is fine...

but please don't preach when you don't know... you can always ask, you know... even paramedics aren't familiar with everything...

but, i accept your apology.

 

[medicdan]

listen, you guys are too much...

firstly, i am not a student, i'm an EMT.
we don't have shifts... whoever can respond the fastest does... we only have shifts between 8p and 6a...
so you would rather a pt sit alone for an extra ten minutes because my personal car on a non-busy road bothers you?
you are clearly not familiar with our type of setup, which is fine...
but please don't preach when you don't know... you can always ask, you know... even paramedics aren't familiar with everything...
but, i accept your apology.

Let me flesh out my thought a little more.....
I admire questions, heck, I am still new to the game, and ask more questions every day then my partners appreciate...
From what i understand, I think medic001918 was referring to jbrooksEMTangel being a student, not skyemt.
Personally, I support personal jump kits, but think that contents and scope of practise should be much limited.
I dont see a need for anything other then:
--Common Sense
--Cell Phone
--Gloves
--CPR mask
--bandages, etc to control severe bleeding,
--cravats
--bp cuff/stethoscope for baseline vitals.

I still encourage all interested parties to do a search, it seems this has been discussed to death elsewhere.

Good Luck...

 

[firecoins]

Firecoins, why so negative?
.

Its not a matter of being negative. Its a matter of experience and common sense.

I am a volunteer in NY state. The never being off call isn't true. If I am not scheduled, I am off call. I can pick up calls when not scheduled. I can take calls when the first rig is out on a call but I am technically off duty.

I have come across medical emergencies outside of being "on call". I am telling you from experience, less is more. The most helpful thing you can do is prepare for incoming ambulances is take yourself first and give them as much information before hand. This way they are prepared to handle the situation. They will have all the equipment necessary. Vital signs, airway breathing and circulation are all thats needed at best.

- For airway and breathing, all you need is a CPR mask. Want to throw in some OPA's? okay you are rarely going to use them. The opportunity you get to do so, you won't have them. Just how it works. Less is more. They have CPR masks you can put on your key chain. Its great cause you will always have it.

- BSI scene safety. As usual protective yourself first. Make sure you don't become a patient. Than have gloves to prevent disease.

- you want carry bandages. Not a problem.You will occasionally use them if available and necessary Most situations where bleeding was occuring it was miner and I don't stop to give out bandages. I only stop at apparent life threatening situations.

If the sitation permits, do a full assessment, take vitals (pulse and respirations are good) and stop major bleeding. Hold C-Spins or stabalize broken bones as necessary. You don't need to have the patient on a backboard prior to the ambulance arriving.

O2, aspiring, glucose , they aren't necessary.

 

[skyemt]

i don't carry aspirin and O2...
basically what you said would be usefull was what i said i carried in my bag...

so, you are essentially agreeing with me, when you started out disagreeing.

glad i shed some light!

about the "on call", that is just semantics... no one is scheduled between 6am and 8pm... so then, i guess everyone in the agency is "off duty". what you are saying here is really irrelevant.

it is simple SOP's we have... if going to the scene in personal vehicles will cut response time by more than a few minutes we do it... if what we carry will help the pt before the rig arrives, we use it (and yes, i have used OPA's)...

it is about as common sense as you can get, not sure how or why you would want to disagree with that based on your "experience".

no reason to be contrary for contrary's sake...

 

[jbrooksEMTangel]

sorry,i havent changed mmy profile..i am not a student EMT anymore..that was awhile ago..i am now the LT emt..anyway,thanks for all the responses,the case is,,we have someone that lives about 15 minutes from the station,he wants to have all this stuff in his private vehicle in case there is a call closer to where he is. where i live we have a population of maybe 500,,small community and in the winter the roads here are horrible.alot of back roads.he wants to have oxygen in his private vehicle,and a bag with the other stuff that he will purchase on his own.my question is ,if something goes wrong while he is taking care of the patient before the rigs gets there when he administers asprin,epi pen,? or if in route to the scene,he gets in a car wreck, who does this all go back on? himself,the dept?..thanks again..i will change my profile..did anyone join my myspace?

 

[bstone]

The few times which I have stopped to help I was very glad to have gloves, a few 4x4s and a BVM. Steth and BP as well. I think that's all you really need.

 

[Lisa]

I understand where you are coming from...

I too live in a very rural area where response time for the ambulance can be as much as 25 minuntes. I work full time at our County service and am involved in Vol Fire Dept as well. I carry a lg bag of supplies in my POV, including 02 and OPA's. I also have a complete IV set up and a few bags of fluids. I can count on one hand that I have used anything more than a BP cuff, steth, and maybe some 4x4's. On the occasions I have had to use anything else, our Ambulance was transpotring another pt. I do not run to every single "I need help" call. I do however go if I know that my help is really needed. I guess it's a catch 22...... If you don't have it, you might need it...If you have it, you will never need it!!
Just thought I would put my .02 worth out there. I do understand small communities.....Our First Responder program has worked really well here.
Good luck whatever you decide to do!

 

[bstone]

You might want to change out the fluids you keep in your car as they might go bad quickly after sitting in a hot car for a while.

 

[skyemt]

Lisa,

thank you for your post...

a voice of reason...

i don't think too many emt's really understand how different it can be in a rurual area.

 

[Lisa]

Thanks

Thanks Bstone.... Good point on the fluids.... I try to change them out when we do monthly check offs for exp drugs!!

 

[Arkymedic]

i live in new york state and we have alot of different rules and regs in our volunteer fire dept.
my question,do you think its a good idea for an EMT-b to carry his own bag in his private vehicle? he wants to beable to carry 02,glucose,asprin,epi pen,. i myseld dont feel comfortable with it,we are having a meeting tonight about this and maybe im wrong but what if the patient is allergic to asprin? what if something goes wrong while he is administring anything on his own before the squad gets there? what if he gets in a car wreck with an O2 tank in his car? does all this come back to the fire dept? we are a volunteer dept and we do not transport, we are thinking about getting back into transporting as the private ambulance service pulled out. just need your opinions on this. thanks

I live in Arkansas and we are quite a bit rural as you would guess. Before I truly got started in EMS I was a FR for a district that averaged 10 FR a day with EMS over 15 minutes out so I have some experience with this. When I first started I had a full size BLS jump bag loaded to the gills and I replaced more supplies out of it due to expiration then I did using them. As I continued on my journey in EMS I become an EMT and Paramedic. Off duty I was a FR only. I did not introduce myself as an EMT or Paramedic I simply said Hi I am Jaison with the FD and I am here to help. I also made a smaller bag and all I carried was gloves, CPR shield, 4x4s, 5x9s, bandages or maxi pads (they soak up 20 x as much so don’t laugh), red bag, BP cuff, stethoscope, and a tube of cake icing. I personally have always been against individuals carrying oxygen as it is dangerous and potentially deadly. In most areas FRs and EMTs cannot administer inhalers, NTG, EpiPen, ASA; they can only assist a pt to take them. Administering meds without prescriptions and without ALS there to intervene is a stupid idea that only ends up in losing a license. Hell, if you really want to get technical oxygen is a drug requiring a prescription as well.

As for the department it is best to do some serious research. Transporting pts also opens up a huge legal can of worms for your department.

 

[medic001918]

listen, you guys are too much...

firstly, i am not a student, i'm an EMT.

we don't have shifts... whoever can respond the fastest does... we only have shifts between 8p and 6a...

so you would rather a pt sit alone for an extra ten minutes because my personal car on a non-busy road bothers you?

you are clearly not familiar with our type of setup, which is fine...

but please don't preach when you don't know... you can always ask, you know... even paramedics aren't familiar with everything...

but, i accept your apology.

The student wasn't referring to you. Your profile didn't state that you were one.

Your car on the road doesn't bother me. It does present a safety hazard on the roadway though. Personal vehicles do not have the proper lighting to clearly mark a scene. A simply strobe light doesn't count. The biggest threat to us as EMS providers is traffic accidents. Responding to calls, and on the roadway while at a scene. The fewer vehicles there, the better. The ones that are there should be properly marked.

I am familiar. I got my start in EMS volunteering in a small town where people would respond to the scene in private cars, and people would respond to the station to get the ambulance. It's a broken system at best. If a service is going to provide EMS, it should have a staffed ambulance 24 hours a day, 7 days a week & 365 days a year. Small towns are usually bordered by other small towns. Combining resources is a good way to justify call volume. County services tend to have a decent set up to model after. All the towns could receive care in a timely manner (including transport instead of waiting), and it could probably be provided for less expense since those expenses are shared.

Please don't assume that I'm not familiar with how different systems work. I've worked small town to big city. Most EMS systems are broken in some form or another, including those in which I work. This has nothing to with paramedics "not knowing everything." It's not a paramedic level discussion at all. Thanks for bringing it up though.

No need to accept an apology as one wasn't offered, nor will one be. It's simply not warranted. Thanks though.

Shane
NREMT-P

 

[ffemt8978]

Lisa,

thank you for your post...

a voice of reason...

i don't think too many emt's really understand how different it can be in a rurual area.

Considering a large majority of us on this forum live/work in rural areas, you may want to reconsider your "Nobody understands what I go through" mentality.

I've been doing this for several years, always in a rural area. (My nearest stoplight is an hour away, the nearest McDonald's is also an hour.) Out my my jumpkit, the only thing I have ever used is the gloves and my BP cuff/stethoscope.

Remember this...when you stop to render aid while off duty, all you are doing is providing first aid. You are not the ambulance or even the emergency response crew. As such, you should concern yourself with the basics of what needs to be done: Scene safety, ABC's, and SAMPLE Hx will keep you occupied for some time, especially if you have more than one patient.