Play Nice

[DrankTheKoolaid]

I've never heard of a nurse in the United States having 50 patients on any normal occurrence (and no, traige nurse in waiting room doesn't count). Infact, more than 5 is rare, and even then if any one of them is truly critical, they never have more than 1. (Some ICUs allow two, but you're not talking about ICUs, you've limited it to ERs) However, I HAVE heard of, and done, my fair share of MCIs, with multiple fatalites and multiple critical patients, with limited resources. I've been the lone Paramedic, with just an EMT and some volly firefighters, on scene of multiple critical patients.

Plus, it's the nature of the beast. If every call I went on had 3 patients, guess what? Every call I'd go on would have 3 patients! It doesn't take a mathmetician to realize when one person calls for help... it's one person calling for help. There aren't depots we pick patients up in, 10 at a time, to take care of. Hospitals are where sick people congregate, hence, there are more sick people.




You REALLY don't want to go there, broseph.





Oh, cool, so doing spreadsheets on a computer makes you better at patient care? I did not know that.


I once had a new-grad RN try that card on me. She got embarrassed rather quickly by her limited knowledge. You don't know what other education I have aside from my Paramedic license. You don't know if I have a BS in biology. You don't know if I have an AA in Liberal Arts. Quit assuming as much. You look foolish.

Bravo my good sir



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[tnoye1337]

Bravo my good sir



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That is a creepy *** smiley...

 

[Bullets]

Anyone want to come and ride with me in NJ this summer, they can experience what its like to operate out of a 6x6 john deer at a music festival. Bamboozle, Warped Tour, all in my area. See how well a provider, emt, nurse or doc, does when they have 8-10 patients presenting simultaneously because they all got hurt in a mosh pit.

Last summer i had a guy break his ankle, and then i got flooded, i ended up transporting 4 people in my gator, with my partner sitting on the hood bagging an open head trauma. and you are in a giant parking lot, so trying ti guide additional resources to your location without any landmarks, "50 yards south of the giant inflatable Monster Can" less then easy

So when you say they have 50 patients, which i still dont believe, they are chronic patients, not acute injuries all requiring your best medicine. And then giving a report to a EMS PHD and keeping 4 patients worth of history scribbled on the back of a notepad straight

 

[epipusher]

No rebuttal from justice??

 

[firetender]

So when you say they have 50 patients, which i still dont believe, they are chronic patients, not acute injuries all requiring your best medicine.

Many Nursing Homes (SNFs) are huge machines handling tons of flesh in the most efficient ways possible. Most of these patients are about maintenance and the way maintenance works these days is maintenance by pharmaceuticals.

Enter the Nurse.

I started working Nursing Homes in the 1970's. One wing, 50 patients (40 women, 10 men), 5 Nurse's Aides and one orderly. And that was one of the finer places! I handled all the hands on for all the males. Each Aide had ten patients. Most were some forms of CVA. Oh, I forgot to mention, ONE RN!

What did she do? (See: Why SNF Nurses are zombies.) She (no men then) pushed pills. ALL day.

I honestly can't imagine that that has gotten any better because most SNFs are still all about maintenance of the not-quite-dead-who-hang-on-thanks-to-meds, 80% of whom are women.

Hands-on care is delivered by poorly trained Aides and for the most part, only disasters take the RNs out of their drug-related duties. There are always a few needing more intense care, but for the most part, that is her role; as manager and pill pusher.

I'm not saying it's like this everywhere, but I can attest these proportions (50 pts. to one RN)are not uncommon (through three states in my time) and perhaps much more common than you would guess. The sad part (for me, anyhow) is that my generation, the Baby Boomers will be making those proportions worse!

 

[Remeber343]

I agree, they do have quite the work load. But im going to fall back on my previous statements. They knew what they were getting into and have no excuses.

I knew what I got into prior to my job. I might get mandatoried, I might not get off on time. I may be up all night. It's the way it goes.

 

[Handsome Robb]

This is where the fun starts. Nurse asks what BP We obtained, 124/74, hr 60. RN stated "oh good i checked it 10 mins ago and it was 174/100, it's much better now. She seems pretty anxious when I took it". I smiled and nodded. Really? You call me for poss internal bleeding, and you think a 50 point drop is okay?

Dude you haven't heard? Screw beta blockers for patients having a hypertensive crisis...just bleed 'em out a little bit to lose some volume and drop that pressure

 

[bigbaldguy]

In the nursing home my dad was in nurses didn't even come out of the office very often they were too busy doing paper work. Medications were delivered by medication techs who at least in an few instances had less knowledge of the medications they were handing out than I did. On one instance I found a tramadol on the floor of my dads room that no one seemed able to account for. This was one one of the best nursing homes in town mind you.

 

[EFDUnit823]

Mike how am I biased? My girlfriend is an RN yes but I have worked in EMS for 8 years. I see both sides of it and from where I am standing I see EMS looking for an outlet for the shortcomings of their profession.

I notice you made no comment about me being out with coworkers who bash nurses.

So, you take your personal experiences and generalize it across the board?
Well sir, while you hear it from your girlfriend, I work for a hospital owned ambulance service…which places me as an Emergency Department employee when not on the ambulance. Though I will say, not all nurses are created equal and several I work with respect EMS personnel, however, most seem to think EMS are equivalent to CNAs regardless of EMT level (B/I/P). As for their patient load, I have zero sympathy…we (EMS) take patient loads here as well and it is not as hard as many nurses claim. Charting is nothing but couple sentence reports, and the ED is a lot like riding the bus…10% (or less) are “real” emergencies.

Plus, there are many luxuries found in the ED that you will not find on the bus. In a hospital, with a trauma alert or code you will find several specialties taking care of the patient with the nurse (or nurses) following the orders given by the doctor. In the field, what do we have?

Now, do not get me wrong, I am not going to bash Nursing as a whole nor do I think EMS is superior to Nursing. However, it is NOT inferior, especially when comparing an ALS Emergency Medicine Nurse to EMS personnel! But, I am gonna respectfully call :censored: on your claim that it is primarily jealous EMS personnel bashing nurses that fuels the whole EMS vs. Nursing.

With all that said, I do think that a more positive and productive relationship really should be built between Nursing and EMS. It SHOULD be about best patient care everyone can provide along with continuity of treatment. Maybe I am just idealistic!
:usa:

 

[Justice]

Laptop crashed. I know all of you missed me.

Read all the comments. I am starting to see why EMS is so angry towards nurses. Little to no understanding of anything outside of EMS with the exception of the people that have moved beyond.

This weekend at work my coworkers spent hours bashing an ER Doc that took a pt with a C1 fracture off a backboard. With zero understanding of why the doctor did this they bashed the doc for hours and posted it all over Facebook Saying the Doctor was an idiot and needed to be fired.

Do you know why the doctor did this? Its actually pretty basic knowledge but EMS knowing only that spine injuries equal backboard had no understanding of why he would do this.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

This is what upsets me. EMT does not = God
Stop thinking you know everything (those that act like this)

 

[Justice]

What frustrates me to no end is going to pick up a patient and I can't get report because the nurse is on lunch.

She's on freaking lunch? Are you kidding me!?! Guess what? My partner and I have been starving all morning because we are busting our butts with calls. Now we are waiting 20 minutes for someone to go find the nurse and bring her back to do HER JOB. That 20 minutes may make us late to our next call or it could have been the 20 minutes we would of had to get lunch or even something to drink. .

By Law the nurse has to take lunch and sometimes this is controlled by the charge nurse. Get over this quick.

 

[the_negro_puppy]

Laptop crashed. I know all of you missed me.

Read all the comments. I am starting to see why EMS is so angry towards nurses. Little to no understanding of anything outside of EMS with the exception of the people that have moved beyond.

This weekend at work my coworkers spent hours bashing an ER Doc that took a pt with a C1 fracture off a backboard. With zero understanding of why the doctor did this they bashed the doc for hours and posted it all over Facebook Saying the Doctor was an idiot and needed to be fired.

Do you know why the doctor did this? Its actually pretty basic knowledge but EMS knowing only that spine injuries equal backboard had no understanding of why he would do this.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

This is what upsets me. EMT does not = God
Stop thinking you know everything (those that act like this)

Are you going to respond to any of the criticisms directed at you or are you just going to post more anecdotes and then have your laptop crash for another week?

 

[Justice]

why bother responding? Some people already know there way of thinking is the only way

 

[ffemt8978]

why bother responding? Some people already know there way of thinking is the only way

And some people post it. <_<

 

[Justice]

And some people post it. <_<

I try and see things from both sides. Several people in this thread also tried to do that. The comments of incompetant nurses Is pure ignorance.

I know a great medic that brought in a vomitting patient last week on his last call 2 hours past his out time. Never even bothered to put the patient on a monitor. I wasnt there and I dont know why he wouldnt do this but when I was at the hospital after my next call, staff was sending that pt to the ICU. 10 minutes after the Medic brought her in the pt coded. Do I bash this medic? Do I say i am tried of stupid medics? Nope this is a good medic who made a mistake a very serious one but the Charge nurse at the hospital spoke to the family to make sure this medic wouldnt have the family coming after him.

medicine is an ever evolving PRACTICE and no 2 situations are alike. Stop demeaning another profession just because you dont agree with that persons actions. None of us are perfect and I am sure more then a few times a Doc, Nurse or fellow EMT looked at you with that WTF is wrong with you face. Difference is most people are willing to look past the minor incident not carry it and keep the fire of hate burning for years.

Nobody is perfect and if you think you never make mistakes or say or do something stupid then you might be the biggest f up out there

 

[ffemt8978]

My comment was directed towards your stated post of not responding to the criticism you received in this thread. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Justice]

I know, Sorry i kinda went off on an unexpected rant forgetting I had qouted you

 

[Sasha]

By Law the nurse has to take lunch and sometimes this is controlled by the charge nurse. Get over this quick.

I require a report before I take a patient anywhere.

And if you have a patient to turn care over on, you have no business going on lunch.

Lunch is not required by law for adults. At least in my state, evidenced by some amazing and busy nurses I know who often work through lunch. And the fact we don't get lunch.

 

[ffemt8978]

There are exceptions to mandatory lunch breaks, one of which is the employee not taking one because they choose not to.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

There are exceptions to mandatory lunch breaks, one of which is the employee not taking one because they choose not to.

From someone who has to deal with an inabilty to get employees out to lunch in a timely manner: yes, they can refuse or (at least in CA) sign away their right to a lunch based on the needs of the business that day. They can not however sign away the two 15 min breaks in an 8 hour day and can actually be forced to take them.