Off-Duty CPR

I started carrying my pocket mask with me wherever I go. Especially if it is where people know me. Like church for example.

Right or wrong, people who know I took the tech class would expect me to do CPR.

If I am just going somewhere alone, I do not always take the mask.

I am not going to do mouth to mouth, even with friends and family. However, there is an expectation that I would do 'something'.

I always call 911, for any incident I see, car crash, fight, medical, person laying on ground, although I generally do not stop. NYC 911 makes me regret calling though to the point where I have to say:

"I am a citizen reporting a car crash at this location, I have no idea the number of people, if the cars can be moved, if anyone is trapped, if there are any weapons, if traffic is blocked, that is the job of whoever you send to investigate. "
 
Learn your state laws. If you're travelling, learn their laws.


Most states allow for good samaritan liability immunity for CPR, AEDs and Basic first aid.

Firecoins, in answer to using the AED; Word Doc from AHA showing AED Immunity under good samaritan laws.

However, starting an IV in a state where you are not certified or licensed would be out of line normally (I'd suggest contacting the local provider or your med control, as they should know the local law there).

In Texas;

LIABILITY FOR EMERGENCY CARE

(a) a person who in good faith administers emergency care at the scene of an emergency or in a hospital is not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent.

(b) This section does not apply for care administered:

(1) for of in expectation of remuneration;

(2) by a person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for remuneration;

(3) by a person who regularly administers emergency care in a hospital or emergency room; or

(4) by an admitting physician or a treating physician associated by the admitting physician of a patient bringing a health-care liability claim.

(V.A.C.S. Art. 1a (part).)

Section 74.002.

UNLICENSED MEDICAL PERSONNEL.

Persons not licensed in the healing arts who in good faith administer emergency care as emergency medical service personnel are not liable in civil damages for an act performed in administering the care unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent. This section applies without regard to whether the care is provided for or in expectation of remuneration.

(V.A.C.S. Art. 1a (part).)
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In court actions, this has covered persons as long as they have no "duty to act" or perceived duty to act. Be aware that wearing your uniform, announcing your credentials (that sticker on your car), carrying medical equipment other than ppe will put you into that perceived duty to act area, and you will not be covered by the good samaritan law.


*notes; I couldn't find that AED chart in HTML form. I am not a lawyer and am in no way providing legal advice, just relaying information.

*note 2: Professional liability insurance isn't that costly for an emt or a medic.
 
How is a sticker on your vehicle or a first aid kit, a perceived duty to act?

Unless your car is plastered with decals and lights, there is nothing that makes it fall under perceived duty to act.

Millions of people carry first aid kits in their cars. They all have a duty to act?
 
emt seeking first job said:
I started carrying my pocket mask with me wherever I go. Especially if it is where people know me. Like church for example.

Right or wrong, people who know I took the tech class would expect me to do CPR.
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You can do compressions and let a family member, under your direction, do rescue breathing. You're "trained" to observe for chest expansion and you know how to perform the compressions properly. It's only fitting that you observe the bystander while doing the technical part yourself.

That said, I carry a mask as well.

If I am just going somewhere alone, I do not always take the mask.

I am not going to do mouth to mouth, even with friends and family. However, there is an expectation that I would do 'something'.
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You wouldn't do mouth to mouth on your mother or father?

Geez....

Anyway, I'd do rescue breathing without a barrier on any of my friends, almost all of my co-workers (at my non EMS job) and allllmost all of my family members.

I always call 911, for any incident I see, car crash, fight, medical, person laying on ground, although I generally do not stop. NYC 911 makes me regret calling though to the point where I have to say:

"I am a citizen reporting a car crash at this location, I have no idea the number of people, if the cars can be moved, if anyone is trapped, if there are any weapons, if traffic is blocked, that is the job of whoever you send to investigate. "
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I like that quite a bit.

Although I imagine calling 911 for every drunk bum you see on the street could tax the system a bit. :)
 
A first aid kit vs a trauma bag w/ OPAs, NPAs, IV gear, etc.

Was it the word perceived that threw you off? Is using the word "inferred" better? OR was it the "duty to act" part?

I provide some information which is relevant to this thread (and I presented some things that were found in courts to be cause for exemption from the good samaritan law here in texas), and you feel the need to be a smart___?

Use some common sense and you can answer those questions yourself.
 
reaper said:
How is a sticker on your vehicle or a first aid kit, a perceived duty to act?

Unless your car is plastered with decals and lights, there is nothing that makes it fall under perceived duty to act.

Millions of people carry first aid kits in their cars. They all have a duty to act?
Click to expand...


My response to the "duty to act": Even if such duty does exist then it must require me to act only as instructed by protocols. My protocols specifically state I'm not to enter an unsafe scene or provide care without appropriate BSI. If I drive past a MVA, how am I to determine "scene safety"? Would not a court of law understand that an accident with traffic speeding by isn't a "safe" scene? What if I've no appropriate BSI on me? Sometimes by driving on and calling 911, I am following my duty to act!
 
AlphaButch said:
A first aid kit vs a trauma bag w/ OPAs, NPAs, IV gear, etc.

Was it the word perceived that threw you off? Is using the word "inferred" better? OR was it the "duty to act" part?

I provide some information which is relevant to this thread (and I presented some things that were found in courts to be cause for exemption from the good samaritan law here in texas), and you feel the need to be a smart___?

Use some common sense and you can answer those questions yourself.
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Well, For you giving a smart--- answer.

You stated that having a sticker on your vehicle or carrying medical equipment, would make you have a perceived duty to act.

A sticker on your vehicle means nothing. If you can show a law that states that you have a duty to act because of it, I will concede to that.

A first aid kit is medical equipment above PPE. This also has no means of perceived duty to act. If you are showing up with a full trauma bag loaded with advanced supplies, you are already not covered by a good Samaritan act.

In almost all states, whether you are a lay person, a basic, a medic or an RN. You can only provide care at a basic level. Anything above that and you are not covered.

Very few states even have a duty to act law and those that do, have policies to cover them.

Whatever state you preside in, you should know the laws you are covered by.

Let's stop the scare tactics. This falls in line with the fear of litigation, that really does not exist to the extent that is drilled into providers heads by uninformed instructors.

I asked you a simple question that you could have explained for accuracy. Instead of trying to be a smart--- about it.
 
Ok, now that I've gotten some much needed rest.

I was informing folks of the Good Samaritan Law as it is in Texas, and how it has been handled by the courts here. Using the Good Samaritan Law isn't the defense a medical provider should be using in Texas, should they find themselves facing legal action for stopping to render aid. These cases become a matter of whether or not negligence occurs. As long as you provide nothing higher than BLS and don't commit negligence you have nothing to worry about.


Now as to the sticker and the perceived duty to act;

Texas Administration Code Rule RULE §157.36

b) 30) engaging in any activity that betrays the public trust and confidence in EMS;

Because yes, if you are perceived as someone with EMS training and you fail to render aid. You can (and I know of two cases where people have) lose your certificate or license.

edit: I can't find the amendment in TAC, but the TSDHS has stated that the exemption to rule 157.36.b.30 is if you are already in the process of rendering aid (i.e. transporting) or are enroute to an emergency. In these cases, there is simply a duty to ensure that aid is notified.
 
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AlphaButch said:
Now as to the sticker and the perceived duty to act;

Texas Administration Code Rule RULE §157.36

b) 30) engaging in any activity that betrays the public trust and confidence in EMS;

Because yes, if you are perceived as someone with EMS training and you fail to render aid. You can (and I know of two cases where people have) lose your certificate or license.
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I gotta say, I find this highly unlikely. My wife often drives my car, and I have also loaned this car to my parents on occassion. None of them have EMS training. So therefore you would have to prove that I was driving at the time. Furthermore, a quick eBay search shows thousands of EMS stickers that anyone can buy. How do you decertify someone who is not certified in the first place?

The section of TAC you cite is most often used in the case if unproven misconduct.
 
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