No more death penalty....

[CAOX3]

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...r-includes-killers-of-Virginias-EMS-providers

"In a move that is surprising and puzzling, the Virginia state Senate has decided that killing an EMS provider is not capital murder and therefore not eligible for the death penalty."

Sad.

*The title of this thread should have been "No death penalty"

 

[firecoins]

why is killing EMS not a capitol murder? For what reason?

 

[CAOX3]

why is killing EMS not a capitol murder? For what reason?

There wasnt much in the story but I agree its ridiculous.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

HOLY HECK!!!!!!! What, are we not people any more?\

Somebody step on the crumb that made that law.h34r:

 

[Shishkabob]

It's one thing to not have EMS as capital murder... but taking it off once it's already on?


Who the hell lobbied for that?

 

[bstone]

A profoundly bad change to the bill.

 

[NERDulance]

You mean an EMT is no more important than John Q. Citizen? We should be glad about this. I mean, I disdain this idea of one life being worth more than another. I think it is arrogant.

 

[FLEMTP]

You mean an EMT is no more important than John Q. Citizen? We should be glad about this. I mean, I disdain this idea of one life being worth more than another. I think it is arrogant.

Its not that EMS providers are any more "important" that an average person, its the fact that a person killed a uniformed emergency services worker in the performance of their duty..and it should only be while in performance of their duties. If you are off duty and out of uniform, and the person has no knowledge that you are EMS (or fire or LEO even) then it should not be an elevated charge.

In florida battery is a simple misdemeanor, however, there is a law that states that battery of a person in a uniform is an elevated charge (elevated to a felony) due to the fact that they are an "authority figure" of sorts, and it shows a much more malicious intent on the behalf of the person committing the crime.. and the law is referred to as "battery LEO" but it covers LEO, Fire, EMS, uniformed security personnel, and emergency medical workers in the performance of their duties (ie: ER docs, ER nurses, ER techs, etc) but the catch is they have to be in a uniform or readily identifiable as whatever discipline they are, and in performance of their duties.

You cant just yell out "im a paramedic" if someone goes to hit you and expect them to get charged with a felony if you're just walking down the street in regular clothing, shopping with the family for example

It should be the same deal with murder. If you murder someone on duty, in uniform or identifiable as public safety personnel, or if you murder them off duty specifically because you are aware they are public safety personnel, then you should be charged with a capitol offense. As I said, it shows a much more malicious intent from the person committing a crime, and it is a direct threat to public safety.

If you are murdered off duty and the person has no idea you're a public safety type person, and they didn't choose you as a victim because of this, then it should be regular 1st or 2nd degree murder.

 

[NERDulance]

Its not that EMS providers are any more "important" that an average person, its the fact that a person killed a uniformed emergency services worker in the performance of their duty..and it should only be while in performance of their duties. If you are off duty and out of uniform, and the person has no knowledge that you are EMS (or fire or LEO even) then it should not be an elevated charge.

You still elevate the worth of the “uniformed” person above that of one of the lowly, less heroic and not-so-godly, commoner types. That’s crap.

 

[Motojunkie]

Please elaborate on your argument because I'm failing to see how the lives of 2 gangbangers in a stolen Caprice are equal to 2 EMS professionals in an ambulance.

 

[Shishkabob]

You still elevate the worth of the “uniformed” person above that of one of the lowly, less heroic and not-so-godly, commoner types. That’s crap.

You failed to comprehend what he said, than.


An attack on a uniformed public servant is instantly more malicious than an attack on random Joe Schmo, because it's an attack on what the person stands for, not the person themself.

 

[adamjh3]

Please elaborate on your argument because I'm failing to see how the lives of 2 gangbangers in a stolen Caprice are equal to 2 EMS professionals in an ambulance.

Yeah, obviously everyone who isn't an EMS professional in an ambulance is a gangbanger in a stolen car. Duh.

We're way more important than the WWII veteran who died as a result of physical elder abuse.

And the 2 year old whose mother drowned her in a bathtub.

And we're definitely much more important than the teenage couple that was murdered in a public park, enjoying their three month anniversary

 

[FLEMTP]

You failed to comprehend what he said, than.


An attack on a uniformed public servant is instantly more malicious than an attack on random Joe Schmo, because it's an attack on what the person stands for, not the person themself.

At least someone here gets it ! loll

 

[NERDulance]

You failed to comprehend what he said, than.


An attack on a uniformed public servant is instantly more malicious than an attack on random Joe Schmo, because it's an attack on what the person stands for, not the person themself.

Well why didn’t you say so?

Sorry Mr. Auto-mechanic and UPS delivery driver, though you wear a uniform and are a valuable and productive member of society, if someone kills you, we are going to punish them less. You see what our uniform indicates is that we are a more valuable societal asset.



Semantics. Still rubbish.

 

[Shishkabob]

You still don't get it.

It has nothing to do with the person. It has nothing to do with the projected worth of the person to society.


It has every thing to do with the attack on the state and authority.


That like saying treason is no worse than corporate espionage. It's not the info, but the target.

 

[NERDulance]

No I get it just fine, buddy. You will have to forgive me as I may not have been clear. The reference to the ’not-so-godly’ is actually a reference to the State and its agents. It is clear the state is supreme and offenses against it are held in higher regard than are others. I just choose to reject that idea. Though that is how society has been molded to think, I just go against that grain.

In the end we are all people fulfilling various roles in society. Some roles are certainly more impacting upon society but that does not mean I am going to separate the role from the person. If you kill a man, irregardless of his position or so-called authority, you should be punished on that merit and not his role. To do otherwise creates a special class. A more protected class of the citizenry.

I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on it. I wont lose any sleep over it.

 

[CAOX3]

The law is in place to protect citizens who serve the public.

We find ourself in defenseless situations at times and in some areas the only thing protecting us from the less desirables is they know they get a fast track to the needle if they decide to use us as target practise.

It has nothing to do with who s life is more valuable. Its in place as a deterrent. The UPS man or the auto mechanic isnt knocking on doors in the ghetto at 3 am.

 

[firecoins]

Cops, firefighers, EMS personel and other emergency workers often have a LEGAL duty to respond. Hence when you attack them it SHOULD be a more serious crime.

The UPS man does not have a LEGAL duty to deliver your package. UPS can fire him but he doesn't have the legal obligation to enter scenes that could turn dangerous.

 

[Scout]

Semantics. Still rubbish.

What is being suggested is its an attack on an institution or an ideal rather than an instance.


For example if i burn an American flag it means something, as distinct from a plain team flag. It is the representation not the act.

 

[firecoins]

What is being suggested is its an attack on an institution or an ideal rather than an instance.


For example if i burn an American flag it means something, as distinct from a plain team flag. It is the representation not the act.

I am against the burning of a plain white flag. B)