NEED OPINIONS from FLORIDA EMS personnel only please

[FLEMTP]

Hey everyone.. I would like florida and only florida EMS personnel to weigh in on this.

Myself and a couple of coworkers are trying to get a bill written and introduced into the state congress.

Basically it is a bill that would allow Florida State EMS providers, whether private, or FD or 3rd service to carry a firearm on duty.

The provisions of the law would be this:

-Must be 21 years of age

-Must obtain a FL CCW permit

-Must qualify with the firearm you intend to carry every 6 months at the
Sheriff's Office in the county in which you are EMPLOYED -qualification to
include weapons retention training and liabilities training
regarding safe carry and use of firearm at a yearly minimum

-Must have your firearm inspected for safe operation at the time of
qualification.

-MUST wear current body armor approved to stop at least the caliber of
your duty weapon at all times while carrying your firearm on duty

-May carry either openly or concealed.

-Individual departments would be allowed to make policy to dictate whether
an employee could carry open or concealed, or mandate specific
makes/models of firearms approved for carry, but must include a both
revolvers and semi-automatics.

This law would offer the individual employee the same legal/civil protections regarding use of the firearm as any other person in the state who uses a firearm lawfully.

It would also exempt employers from civil claims regarding the use of firearms by employee.


I would appreciate feedback regarding the provisions of this bill, or the feasibility of the bill.

PLEASE DO NO USE THIS THREAT TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS ABOUT EMS PROVIDERS CARRYING FIREARMS. THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN MANY OTHER THREADS AND THIS IS NOT THE PLACE.

I simply want some input regarding this potential bill and I would appreciate some Florida ems providers weighing in on whether or not they would intend to carry, or would be in support of this bill.

 

[JPINFV]

You might want to consider either authorizing a fee or setting a fixed fee to offset the cost to the sheriff.

Consider mandating that carriers have some sort of secure storage case where they can store weapons during specific calls and during transports (logistical question. How are you going to move about the back of the ambulance while keeping your weapon side away from the patient on the gurney? Are you going to want to carry when transporting psychatric patients, criminals, or people accused of a crime regardless of if police are on board or not? What are you going to do with your firearm? Requiring some mechanism for safe storage should be included)?

Are you going to require any specific sort of ammo, such as non-penetrating ammo? Since the goal is to end the immediate threat, is there going to be any consideration to over penetration of missed rounds?

 

[FLEMTP]

All good points..

Many of which i hadnt given consideration to in depth.

My line of thought is that police officers in FL transport psychiatric patients and those under arrest as a matter of duty and they do not disarm to do so. I should add something in there about being mandated to carry a firearm in a level III retention duty holster if openly carried.

If its carried concealed, then no one will know about it until such time that the weapon needs to be used.

As far as ammo, mandating that EMS providers use the same type of ammo that the Sheriff office carries seems like a safe bet.

As far as moving about the ambulance, you just have to be aware of what the patient is doing at all times, as you should anyways. I did consider this, hence the reason i added the provision about weapons retention training yearly.
Once again, if the firearm is concealed, then it becomes a non issue.

As far as the fee, I know for security personnel in the State of FL they have to obtain a Class G firearms license in order to carry, maybe they can create a class of license specific to EMS personnel and on duty carry. That fee could be set by the Dept of Agriculture, with a portion of the funds going to the sheriff's office that does the training, and the rest to the state for administration costs. typically that cost is 117 for the license, so I imagine it would be similar in cost to that. Training and retraining would be paid for out of pocket by the EMS provider, which is the same situation that security personnel face. I think this is more than fair considering that carry of a firearm is not a requirement of our job, but an option that the individual provider would have.

 

[VentMedic]

PLEASE DO NO USE THIS THREAT TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS

This is a threat?

You might want to go to a good law library and let a legal research assistant assist you to see what has already been proposed in the past and the outcomes. You might also see the various other statutes and issues that made up Florida's current concealed weapons law.

This is nothing new in Florida. JPINFV has also covered many of the concerns that have been expressed in past attempts. Safety of the provider is NUMBER ONE and if this presents an additional threat, yes threat, to the provider because of specific patient situations, then it is not the best solution.

Do your homework.

 

[18G]

I have strong reservations about ordinary EMS personnel being permitted to carry guns on-duty. I don't think I could support a bill such as this.

My thinking is that if EMS providers are armed, they will be more likely to enter into dangerous or potentially dangerous situations. If there is any potential for a violent patient, just stage until scene is secure. Granted scenes can be presumed safe and instantly become threatening.

Also, introducing multiple guns into a scene where there was none to begin with I don't think is a good idea either. Even if EMS is allowed to carry on-duty, what about training on their use. I know the bill mentions qualifying which is a given, but what about if someone grabs for your gun? How would you be trained to defend against that?

You should always be aware of your surroundings, but when taking care of a patient I wouldn't want to be distracted by always thinking about my firearm or someone getting to close to my side, etc.

There would also be a lot of mistaken identity as well when people see guns on your side.

If your gonna carry a gun in this capacity I think you should be required to be trained in self-defense.

I'm all for the greater protecting of EMS providers I just don't think guns is the answer. What about tasers? They are non-lethal, have great effect and instantly take down an attacker. And can be shot for some distance.

I would support a bill authorzing EMS to carry tasers.

 

[wyoskibum]

waste of time

I simply want some input regarding this potential bill and I would appreciate some Florida ems providers weighing in on whether or not they would intend to carry, or would be in support of this bill.

EMT's and Medics shouldn't carry guns. Let the cops secure the scene and carry the guns.

 

[ffemt8978]

PLEASE DO NO USE THIS THREAT TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS ABOUT EMS PROVIDERS CARRYING FIREARMS. THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN MANY OTHER THREADS AND THIS IS NOT THE PLACE.

So you want input on the bill, only as long as it coincides with your viewpoint? Sorry, that ain't gonna happen.

If you ask for input, then you must be willing to accept all input on the subject...you don't get to pick and chose what input is given to you here.

As with the other thread, this one will remain open as long as it remains on the topic of firearms and EMS...any other firearms discussions will result in this thread getting shut down.

 

[spikestac211]

I'm all for EMS personnel carrying weapons, but you'd have to make it a HELLUVA lot tougher to get into EMS!!! Look at all the whackers there are with fancy lights on their car, imagine if they were allowed to carry guns!

Cops can open carry guns because they go through a ton of training and background investigation to do so. CCW is easy to attain for the average citizen because its a WHOLE different ball game than open carrying UNIFORMED individuals. See what I'm saying? Any average Joe can and should conceal carry or open carry. But when you do it for your job when you're wearing a uniform it brings on a whole new bout of liability, not to mention the psychological impacts of wearing a gun and trying to be a hero.

Not trying to add to the debate of armed vs. unarmed EMS debate, but just figured I'd share my thoughts. For your bill, I guess just add more training and a deeper background investigation or psych analysis, cause it ain't gonna happen otherwise.

 

[b2dragun]

While I am not Florida EMS my thought on the subject is no. FD doesn't carry, why would you allow private company employees too. I would also wonder if one EMS would feel comfortable with his partner carrying. They don't have the training of law enforcement, I would be concerned with their reactions to situations...possibly putting me in a bad situation. Would you then only allow carry&carry/non-carry&non-carry partners. I think if you do, all should have to, and they should go through some kind of academy.

 

[medicdan]

I am not going to comment at the issue of firearms in ambulances, but more of the reason you feel its necessary.

Is this measure in reaction to providers feeling they are unprotected, or at risk while in the truck? Are you really in that many situations, or that often, when you feel at risk, and LEOs aren't on scene (or you have taken proper precautions, such as staging off-scene until cleared by LEOs)?

Perhaps you would be more interested in Defense tactics such as those taught in DT4EMS.
Perhaps, if you truly feel at risk, you should consider non-lethal weaponry, such as OC spray.

Of course remember what purpose we serve working in the field. Our goal is healthcare, or at least patient care, not further harm.

 

[BLSBoy]

I would rather see expanded education to include hand to hand defensive tactics, and a taser, rather then firearms, unless working in the capacity of a tactical medics.
Just my 4 cents from a Fla resident/medic working in Jersey, waiting to get a decent paying job in Fla.

 

[JPINFV]

FD doesn't carry, why would you allow private company employees too.

Ignoring the entire issue of firearms, why would you make policy or protocol based on what the fire department does or doesn't do? I'm sure that the private companies do things that the fire departments don't and vice versa.

 

[NC_EMT]

I would rather just stage in a safe place and let LEO's handle what needs to be handled. If you want to put yourself in a life-threatening situation, you should have taken BLET and became a police officer.

 

[MusicMedic]

i agree with alot of what people said here, im all for a Non-lethal alternative: pepper-spray and Tazers

Like someone said before our job is to help people and not harm them
Call LEO's and let them handle the scene safety

plus how many times do we find our selves first in at a convicted Murderers house?

but if i ever to carry a CCW id carry a Desert eagle 50 cal L, i know not to consealiable

 

[MusicMedic]

double post sorry

 

[NC_EMT]

but if i ever to carry a CCW id carry a Desert eagle 50 cal L, i know not to consealiable

it sure has the stopping power though!

 

[MusicMedic]

it sure has the stopping power though!

hah yeah enough to blow a whole a size of a watermelon haha

 

[NC_EMT]

speaking of DE .50...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA

 

[JPINFV]

speaking of DE .50...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA

The significant other is a a-hole for not teaching and insuring proper form.

 

[NC_EMT]

a-hole or not...big gun vs. small woman = funny