Medics: Do you ever feel... under-educated?

[Genaio]

So I've been lurking on these forums for a while, but haven't posted much, so I guess this is my first real post.

This is more directed towards Paramedics, but I'm sure some EMT-I's might have some insights as well.

I've been a medic for about a year and a half and lately I've been getting this strange feeling like I'm horribly under-educated WRT understanding why we do what we do. Do any of you feel that your education as a Medic was sub-par? I mean I know the medic material pretty well, I passed the NREMT exam and practical with no problems and I'm confident in my skills for the most part, but I can't help but feel that I don't know as much as I should about advanced medical concepts (pathophys, bio, the science behind it all). I do work in the ER of a L1 trauma center, and I'm constantly surrounded by doctors, residents and CCRNs, so that may alter my perceptions of what I think I should know, but I do feel uneasy about it. :unsure:

Anyone else feel like this? Is this something that goes away with more experience? Any non-US medics have anything to say about it?

Thanks to anyone who answers.

 

[shfd739]

I think youre correct.

Most medic training is skills oriented- see this then do this. Hence the technician part.

 

[Veneficus]

I've been a medic for about a year and a half and lately I've been getting this strange feeling like I'm horribly under-educated WRT understanding why we do what we do. Do any of you feel that your education as a Medic was sub-par? I mean I know the medic material pretty well, I passed the NREMT exam and practical with no problems and I'm confident in my skills for the most part, but I can't help but feel that I don't know as much as I should about advanced medical concepts (pathophys, bio, the science behind it all). I do work in the ER of a L1 trauma center, and I'm constantly surrounded by doctors, residents and CCRNs, so that may alter my perceptions of what I think I should know, but I do feel uneasy about it. :unsure:

Anyone else feel like this? Is this something that goes away with more experience? Any non-US medics have anything to say about it?

Thanks to anyone who answers.

I think you have discovered the obviousness of the truth.

Medics are not properly educated in the US. It is done this way by design.

It was and is meant to be a tech level position that basically uses If:then statements in order to provide emergent intervention.

Many people, including myself attempt to elevate medics out of this level, but unfortunately there is a lot of resistance to bettering the medic into a profession.

I have spent more hours in gross anatomy than entire hours in my home state's paramedic program.

I have more than doubled the hours of those same programs studying 3 or 4 specific diseases.

More than triple those hours on the disease process that is the focus of my attention.

Most motivated medics when they discover this and desire more move on to nursing, medicine, etc.

From the nature of your post, I suspect you will be looking into that shortly.

 

[NYMedic828]

Every day.

But I don't feel I am undereducated, I know I am. As such, I will be moving on to nursing or PA in the coming years. There is no hope for me here.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Yes. Everyday, but I take steps to increase my knowledge every day.

When you stop learning is when you stop growing.

 

[TransportJockey]

Yes. Everyday, but I take steps to increase my knowledge every day.

When you stop learning is when you stop growing.

This. You can never stop learning

 

[fast65]

As others have said, I know I am under educated...it's not a great feeling in all honesty.

That being said, the only reason I've considered nursing, is because I want to further my knowledge, and I seem to have a problem furthering my knowledge on my own in an organized fashion. However, that hasn't stopped me from trying.

 

[7887firemedic]

All the time! To be honest I study twice as much since becoming a Medic then I did during Medic school

 

[Veneficus]

All the time! To be honest I study twice as much since becoming a Medic then I did during Medic school

Then you should probably enroll in some classes and get some formal credit for your efforts.

 

[ParamedicCharlie]

Understand that we all start somewhere, an your urn for knowledge will take you far. I as many of my peers an colleagues have and will continue to further educate themselves. Don't ever stop, don't stop for anything or anyone, as others have posted, you will meet resistance from others who so not wish to further stimulate there medical practice.

You are on the right path never give up never stop learning.

A mental tool, mantra, I use is "every patent is family". And if you were providing care to your family, wouldn't you want to know every single aspect of there care. From start to finish.

You are doing great... All of you! (I mean look at you all, on a EMS forum on your off time)

Thanks
Charlie
"Every patient is family"

 

[7887firemedic]

Then you should probably enroll in some classes and get some formal credit for your efforts.

Not much in my area in terms of formal ed and that cost$ to which I am not blessed. I am looking for pals,nals,phtls, and ccemtp that are close to me and affordable.

 

[VFlutter]

Not much in my area in terms of formal ed and that cost$ to which I am not blessed. I am looking for pals,nals,phtls, and ccemtp that are close to me and affordable.

And that is the problem with paramedic eduction. Cookbook certification classes are in no way an alternative for actual college level education.

 

[7887firemedic]

And that is the problem with paramedic eduction. Cookbook certification classes are in no way an alternative for actual college level education.

I agree 100% I would love to be able to take formal ed in EMS disciplines i.e. cardiology, pathophysiology, etc.. Yes those topics were in my medic study but limited. For example 12 leads were 3 pages in cardiology, whereas I had taken it upon myself to dive deeper than st elavation and depression i.e. axis deviations, hyperacute t waves, nutrient and mineral balances etc... Knowledge is power and thats what helps me, help my patients. I will continue studying and learning until they pry my cold dead hands from my lifepak and drug bag lol

 

[NYMedic828]

I agree 100% I would love to be able to take formal ed in EMS disciplines i.e. cardiology, pathophysiology, etc.. Yes those topics were in my medic study but limited. For example 12 leads were 3 pages in cardiology, whereas I had taken it upon myself to dive deeper than st elavation and depression i.e. axis deviations, hyperacute t waves, nutrient and mineral balances etc... Knowledge is power and thats what helps me, help my patients. I will continue studying and learning until they pry my cold dead hands from my lifepak and drug bag lol

Vene and Chase weren't referring to education in EMS disciplines. They were referring to higher respected titles with better wages and future for you and your family.

Certain things can't be learned on your own and quite honestly it is a waste of time at some point in EMS. You can get all the certifications in the world but you won't be any more desirable than the other guy who is willing to work for $1/hour less than you are. It's all for nothing. In every other profession in healthcare, going the extra mile can be beneficial but not in EMS.

I self educate because it makes me feel good and leads me down a different path in my quest for knowledge and prepares me for my return to school in a different discipline altogether. But that effort won't take me anywhere in EMS.

 

[7887firemedic]

Vene and Chase weren't referring to education in EMS disciplines. They were referring to higher respected titles with better wages and future for you and your family.

Gotcha, in that case I am a Medic to Rn student however I feel its a shame that EMS has not evolved. EMS should be a career not just a stepping stone as it often is. I have no ambition to be stuck in a Hospital all shift, my desire is to be in the field be it ground or air. Here in lies the fork in the road, stay in ems and struggle or move into the hospital settings (monetarily speaking)

 

[NYMedic828]

Gotcha, in that case I am a Medic to Rn student however I feel its a shame that EMS has not evolved. EMS should be a career not just a stepping stone as it often is. I have no ambition to be stuck in a Hospital all shift, my desire is to be in the field be it ground or air. Here in lies the fork in the road, stay in ems and struggle or move into the hospital settings (monetarily speaking)

The sad reality is the that EMS is not going to change. History has proven that EMS is not willing to evolve to meet the needs of modern healthcare.

In the last 20 years medicine has grown more rapidly than ever expected possible in the past. EMS has hardly changed one bit aside from a few tools in the box. (That we aren't properly trained to use)

The truth is unfortunate and we all wish it different but you can't let it hold you back from succeeding in life and making something more of yourself. People who expect to wait around in EMS hoping for change are going to be heavily disappointed when reality sets in.

 

[Jambi]

Gotcha, in that case I am a Medic to Rn student however I feel its a shame that EMS has not evolved. EMS should be a career not just a stepping stone as it often is. I have no ambition to be stuck in a Hospital all shift, my desire is to be in the field be it ground or air. Here in lies the fork in the road, stay in ems and struggle or move into the hospital settings (monetarily speaking)

This is like this for all the reasons Vene and others have, and it will not change so long as those that realize this keep leaving the profession for those with better pay and recognition. The catch is why should such people stay when the situation is what it currently is and the resistance to change is as strong as it is. Change can happen, will eventually happen (I like to think), but it will not be fast, nor easy. It's going to be real rough for those that decide they want to be first...

 

[NYMedic828]

This is like this for all the reasons Vene and others have, and it will not change so long as those that realize this keep leaving the profession for those with better pay and recognition. The catch is why should such people stay when the situation is what it currently is and the resistance to change is as strong as it is. Change can happen, will eventually happen (I like to think), but it will not be fast, nor easy. It's going to be real rough for those that decide they want to be first...

Even if I wanted to stick around and wait and pray for change, I couldn't.

60,000 a year in NYC is not a livable wage.

How long can people be expected to sit around and wait for what may never come when it ultimately is effecting their immediate future and that of their some day family. I for one am not goin to essentially waste my time when I know it could effect the quality of life my children have down the line.

 

[Jambi]

Even if I wanted to stick around and wait and pray for change, I couldn't.

60,000 a year in NYC is not a livable wage.

How long can people be expected to sit around and wait for what may never come when it ultimately is effecting their immediate future and that of their some day family. I for one am not goin to essentially waste my time when I know it could effect the quality of life my children have down the line.

The average medic out here in Cali makes about 30k before OT. It sucks

Your conclusion is essentially the same one I've come to, and why I've done classes to get into RN or PA school.

 

[Veneficus]

This is like this for all the reasons Vene and others have, and it will not change so long as those that realize this keep leaving the profession for those with better pay and recognition. The catch is why should such people stay when the situation is what it currently is and the resistance to change is as strong as it is. Change can happen, will eventually happen (I like to think), but it will not be fast, nor easy. It's going to be real rough for those that decide they want to be first...

I think that it is important to also consider in the US, the volunteer and fire/ems establishments have a monetary interest in making sure EMS does not move forward.

It is not just a problem of unmotivated providers.

If the standards for EMS were raised to that of the rest of the civilized world, the price to employ dual role fire/medics would skyrocket.

The cost to train volunteers as well as maintain certification would likely become insurmountable for those agencies.

This quickly becomes a political nightmare. As EMS providers will be accused of:

a. taking away care from rural/poor communities for their own financial gain.

b. causing an increase in tax requirements for municipalties/reducing desired services again for their own financial gain. (the IAFF IAFC and affiliates will use the exact same PR arguments they have to convert to fire/ems because they work.)

Whether anyone admits it or likes it, the FD has spent considerable money and effort over the years on PR. They do PR probably better than anyone. This money comes from their members and through department funded initiatives.

In order to overcome that, a non-fire professional organization that excluded firefighters (consequently dual role providers) wouldhave to solicit members to pay money as well as private EMS/IFT institutions to help fund a massive research and PR campaign.

This is where trade mags such as JEMS with their "strategic partnership" with the IAFF and NAEMT (with IAFF members in officer positions which have an obvious conflict of interest) fall way short.

Realistically, if this organization were to actually kick off, it would immediately come under PR attack.

I do not think it is possible to start a "grass roots" EMS movement which could tak on the already organizaed and established opposition.

I ca see a few potentail strategies, but they will take a long time and considerable sacrifice on the part of individual providers.

A perfect example of PR, every year the US sees firefighters "fill the boot" for the MDA.

WHat do we see EMS providers do?