Level of respect (Rant)

[medichopeful]

Hi all,

I have been on these forums for a few weeks. For the most part, I thoroughly enjoy reading the posts on this site.

However, I have to say that I find the level of disrespect on this site appalling. Many people are always putting each other down, and it really takes a lot of the enjoyment out of reading these forums.

It seems as if some people think that everybody is on different teams. If somebody says one thing wrong, somebody else will jump on them. Why can't we just respectfully tell each other that they are mistaken?

Now, I am not trying to say that nobody should ever argue on here. Some disagreement is good, but could we just try to be a little more respectful? People are going to say things that are wrong and that you don't agree with. Try to tell them that you don't agree in a respectful way. Just try to cut people a little more slack.

There has been a lot of discussion on here about how paramedics and EMTs don't get a lot of respect. With all of the arguing that goes on around here, I have to say that at times, I can see why.

I realize that this is getting a little long, so let me say this: I understand that I will not be able to single-handedly change the way people on this forum interact with each other. However, I also realize that sometimes small steps are the best.

Any thoughts? You all are welcome to disagree with me. In fact, I expect you to. I just thought that I would open this up for discussion.

Remember, everybody on this site is on the same team.

With respect,
Eric

 

[medic417]

This is the most tame site I have ever seen. If this one offends you please do not visit other sites.

 

[medichopeful]

You do have a good point. I have never seen other EMT sites, so I don't really have anything to compare it to in that regard. I use to visit a LE site (officer.com), and everybody on that site seemed to (for the most part) be a lot more respectful.

I am not really very offended by the things that I see on this site. If I was overly offended, I would probably have some trouble going into EMS.

It would just be nice if people were a little more polite. Does anybody else agree with me?

I am trying to think of an example of somebody being impolite, and I have thought of one that I saw recently. Now, I realize that this is not the best example, but it is something to think about:

On a couple of occasions, people have asked for support with problems they have had with calls. For example, somebody (I am not going to mention any names) was having an issue with a few calls they had had in the past. They asked how people on this site deal with these calls, and instead of support, people immediately began telling this person that they may not be cut out for EMS. I am not an EMT (yet), but it seems that some people may have a problem with certain calls. To me, it doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with that. It seems like people come here for support, and they don't get it.

This is just my opinion. Like I said, people are more than welcome to disagree with me. I am not trying to cause any problems, just open the floor up for discussion.

Any input is appreciated.

Stay safe!
Eric

 

[LucidResq]

It would just be nice if people were a little more polite. Does anybody else agree with me?

Yup. I'm not offended, nor have I ever had my "feelings hurt" or anything like that. However, I often get this sense of general antagonism. I don't mind a touchy debate, but the insults have got to go. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if many newcomers on the forum feel unwelcome based on the somewhat rude responses they often get to their questions.

 

[Shishkabob]

Yeah, a few of us do fight, as does everyone on every single forum on the internet.

Most fights tend to be basic/medic in nature.

 

[Veneficus]

Is it even possible to put so many type A personalities together and not fight?

 

[Wee-EMT]

Hi all,

I have been on these forums for a few weeks. For the most part, I thoroughly enjoy reading the posts on this site.

However, I have to say that I find the level of disrespect on this site appalling. Many people are always putting each other down, and it really takes a lot of the enjoyment out of reading these forums.

It seems as if some people think that everybody is on different teams. If somebody says one thing wrong, somebody else will jump on them. Why can't we just respectfully tell each other that they are mistaken?

Now, I am not trying to say that nobody should ever argue on here. Some disagreement is good, but could we just try to be a little more respectful? People are going to say things that are wrong and that you don't agree with. Try to tell them that you don't agree in a respectful way. Just try to cut people a little more slack.

There has been a lot of discussion on here about how paramedics and EMTs don't get a lot of respect. With all of the arguing that goes on around here, I have to say that at times, I can see why.

I realize that this is getting a little long, so let me say this: I understand that I will not be able to single-handedly change the way people on this forum interact with each other. However, I also realize that sometimes small steps are the best.

Any thoughts? You all are welcome to disagree with me. In fact, I expect you to. I just thought that I would open this up for discussion.

Remember, everybody on this site is on the same team.

With respect,
Eric

I agree 100%

 

[Shishkabob]

Is it even possible to put so many type A personalities together and not fight?

Do they have to be conscious?

 

[medichopeful]

Yup. I'm not offended, nor have I ever had my "feelings hurt" or anything like that. However, I often get this sense of general antagonism. I don't mind a touchy debate, but the insults have got to go. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if many newcomers on the forum feel unwelcome based on the somewhat rude responses they often get to their questions.

I think that you put it perfectly. I agree with basically everything you said. I haven't ever been offended by what I have read either. I think that the word "antagonism" is the perfect word for what I am trying to discuss. I think that debate is fine (in fact, I enjoy a good debate), as long as it is done in a respectful way.

I have never felt not welcome to the site because of the fact that I am new. I have, however, felt that some of the young people on the site have received disrespect just because they are young. True, some of the young EMTs in EMS are undoubtedly immature. However, that does not mean that every young person is. We deserve a chance to prove ourselves. We are not automatically screw-ups. I have never done any EMS work, but I have done other work that requires maturity (interning at a PD, teaching karate). Does it automatically mean that I am not good at it or that I don't know what I am doing because I am only 19?

Respectfully,
Eric

 

[Veneficus]

Do they have to be conscious?

Would it really matter?


we'd be fighting and just not be able to show it.

 

[Sasha]

Do they have to be conscious?

I fight (Kick, punch) in my sleep. I've also been told that I argue in my sleep.

 

[Ridryder911]

Part of the problem even with this thread is no one ever explored or researched before making an opinion. Is that really the way to even discuss something?

Part of the tension is many of us want credibility to the site. Spouting or raving per strictly emotions is childish, immature, and unscientific. Be able to back up what you posts with either scientific, published materials, research or per education of academia or life history/clinical experience.

What I also see is many have not a real clue of what the medical profession is really like as well. The most they have seen is a few hours of clinicals as an observer yet want to inform many ..."of how it should be". Really?

My suggestion is to read other EMS forums and even Medical forums. See how those that are uneducated or poorly trained are treated. Review posts that display poor representation of their chosen career or profession. Then come back and tell me how bad this site has become.

Medicine is brutal. Those within it are twice as bad. They have to be. Someone has to remove the rose colored glasses and sniff some reality once and a while. Please, observe medical rounds with med students. Then come and inform how sweet they were to them. Again, there is a reason. We are responsible for lives. One piece of misinformation that could be interpreted wrong or placed into practice by poor informed providers may cause drastic consequences. If you really believe it is bad here, just await getting "talked to" by a physician or similar. I can assure you that this place is very "sweet".

You may be concerned about the posts. I am too. I get several IM's regarding how they would participate if we could actually get more intellectual discussion regarding the profession, patient care and other related professional posts. Heated debates are great! Show me professionals that do not. That is how we sometimes advance and recognize there are two sides. Yes, there are times one has to agree to disagree and for the most, many do.

To make it successfully within a medical career; one has to have determination, drive and the ability to defend one self. Ask those involved in it and see if this not a daily occurrence.


XOXO
R/r 91

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I've been on this forum for 4 days now and LOVE THEM! I just came from another set of forums where I was called every name under the son for diagreeing on a matter of local politics. I left immediately. I came here becasue I need the exchange of ideas with people on my level. We speak the same language and so far I have found this place to be awesome when it comes to respect. Yes, there are a few who's comments seem to be more along the lines of "You are wrong. I am right. I can't you would think that way." Superior Burnouts that believe that they know it all; I'm not sure why they are here becasue this should be a place for a respectful interchange of thoughts for the continued education of all. And it had been for the most part. Check out other forums and you might have a differnet view; these are controlled perfectly! LOVE IT HERE. HOPE TO BE HERE FOR AWHILE. YOU TEACH ME. I TEACH YOU. WE ALL LEAVE WISER...

 

[medichopeful]

Be able to back up what you posts with either scientific, published materials, research or per education of academia or life history/clinical experience.

I definitely see where you are coming from in regards to this. I do not like to see people just spurt information without being able to back it up.

My suggestion is to read other EMS forums and even Medical forums. See how those that are uneducated or poorly trained are treated. Review posts that display poor representation of their chosen career or profession. Then come back and tell me how bad this site has become.

I can imagine how people that are uneducated are treated. If they are saying things that are not correct, I completely agree that they should be corrected. But why not correct them in a way that is respectful? Just tell them why they are wrong. Mocking them or berating them is extremely unprofessional. (Rid, I am not directing this at you. Just making some comments.)

We are responsible for lives. One piece of misinformation that could be interpreted wrong or placed into practice by poor informed providers may cause drastic consequences.

I completely realize this. And I completely agree. If somebody is mistaken in what they believe, it needs to be corrected, especially in this field. Like you said, mistakes can cost lives. However, I believe that it should be discussed in a respectful way. There have been many times where I have read a post in a forum where someone says something in a VERY disrespectful way. If somebody is going to correct somebody, why not do it in a way where they will actually learn it, not just get ticked off by how they were corrected?

If you really believe it is bad here, just await getting "talked to" by a physician or similar. I can assure you that this place is very "sweet".

Just because some people (such as doctors/physicians/etc.) are cocky, arrogant, or jerks, does not mean that everybody should be. This is the exact same thing that I was talking about in my earlier posts. It seems as if everybody here thinks everybody else is stupid, uneducated, or on the "other team."

You may be concerned about the posts. I am too. I get several IM's regarding how they would participate if we could actually get more intellectual discussion regarding the profession, patient care and other related professional posts.

I agree. I am not in the medical field yet (nor will I pretend to be until I actually am), but I would also love to see some more intellectual discussion. I think that I (along with others) would be able to learn a lot by just reading those threads.

Heated debates are great! Show me professionals that do not. That is how we sometimes advance and recognize there are two sides. Yes, there are times one has to agree to disagree and for the most, many do.

Debates are good. They are really a great way to show what you believe in, and hopefully cause the other "side" to learn something. However, I believe that the debates should be done in a respectful way. There is no reason that people should be demeaning when they are arguing with somebody else. Yes, they can disagree, but why should someone be mocked or in any other way disrespected?

To make it successfully within a medical career; one has to have determination, drive and the ability to defend one self.

For the most part, I agree with this state. However, I would have to say that I think that a medical professional has to be able to defend their position, not themselves. I am not saying that people on this forum should not argue. Far from it. I think that debates are great. I just think that they should be done in a respectful way.

XOXO
R/r 91

Thanks for contributing!

Many people on this site (RidRyder and Medic417 come to mind) have stated over and over that this profession needs to become more advanced, be it through education or other means. Though I am not in the field, I respect your views on this, and I agree. I think that this field should be as advanced as possible, as it is one of the most important fields in our society. why don't we start advancing the profession by becoming more respectful?

I hope that I haven't offended anybody. If I have, please let me know. Though I have to say, it would be kind of ironic for me to offend somebody in this thread :glare:

As always,
Eric

 

[Shishkabob]

I fight (Kick, punch) in my sleep. I've also been told that I argue in my sleep.

That's just part of being a woman.

 

[medichopeful]

I've been on this forum for 4 days now and LOVE THEM! I just came from another set of forums where I was called every name under the son for diagreeing on a matter of local politics. I left immediately. I came here becasue I need the exchange of ideas with people on my level. We speak the same language and so far I have found this place to be awesome when it comes to respect. Yes, there are a few who's comments seem to be more along the lines of "You are wrong. I am right. I can't you would think that way." Superior Burnouts that believe that they know it all; I'm not sure why they are here becasue this should be a place for a respectful interchange of thoughts for the continued education of all. And it had been for the most part. Check out other forums and you might have a differnet view; these are controlled perfectly! LOVE IT HERE. HOPE TO BE HERE FOR AWHILE. YOU TEACH ME. I TEACH YOU. WE ALL LEAVE WISER...

I love it here too. I check the forum multiple times a day. I have learned from this site, and I hope I will continue to in the future. I just don't see why everybody has to try to teach others like Dr. Cox.

Don't even get me started about the disrespect shown during political discussions. I have had MANY arguments with my father over the exact subject. He believes that anybody that doesn't agree with him is wrong and an idiot. This makes me angry to no end.

Yes, there are a few who's comments seem to be more along the lines of "You are wrong. I am right. I can't you would think that way."

These are the people that I am talking about. Also, the people who just join a conversation to say that somebody is wrong or doesn't know what they are talking about.

Stay safe!
Eric

 

[medichopeful]

That's just part of being a woman.

Hey! Not on this thread!

 

[Ridryder911]

I love it here too. I check the forum multiple times a day. I have learned from this site, and I hope I will continue to in the future. I just don't see why everybody has to try to teach others like Dr. Cox.

Don't even get me started about the disrespect shown during political discussions. I have had MANY arguments with my father over the exact subject. He believes that anybody that doesn't agree with him is wrong and an idiot. This makes me angry to no end.



These are the people that I am talking about. Also, the people who just join a conversation to say that somebody is wrong or doesn't know what they are talking about.

Stay safe!
Eric

The reason is simple, some people do not understand unless you are being straight forward. I have participated on about five or six EMS forums. This is the only one I have been so blunt on more than any others. There is a reason why. Many on here do not understand unless you are. Many assume that they know exactly what is right based upon what? Whenever I make an opinion it is not usually based upon emotional or anecdotal information. Before I attempt to make posts I want to be fully informed to be held credible. Mainly, I want to have integrity.

Forums are to provide information by discussion, not just to give an opinion. If that was the case it would be just blogs. Opinions are alike some body parts; everyone has one. One has to remember can they back up what they think? Or is it just an idea, rumor or false acquisitions?

For example: I read about .. " I went to the best EMT school" or "My instructor was the best EMT instructor". So really, what basis do you have to make such statements? Did you attend more than one EMT class to be able to make an comparison? Did you research to see what credentials your Instructor really possess? What was their pass rate? What is the hiring ratio? What references do they have as an instructor? How much education do they have in teaching? Have they had the ability to perform research? Have they ever been published? What activity and how much are they involved in EMS as a profession? Other than just teaching you twice a week, really what makes them so special?

Even in the debate of volunteers; I can dare say the majority of those (volunteers or paid) do not know the EMS profession. Do you really know the differences between certification and a license or even how the current standards are developed and put in place? Yes, your profession and how those in it are taught. Yet, let (either side) inform us upon.. "how things really are"... When in fact most of those involved within EMS are very ignorant (not stupid) on their own profession. Hence the reason of truly motivators and shakers in EMS avoid EMS forums alike they are the black plague.

Everyone has said the old saying.. "there is no stupid question".... When actually, there is. Many times we may be rough (especially us professional educators) on responding because we realize it does no good to immediately answer the question. Part of the learning process is knowing how to obtain that answer and as how well one can retain that answer longer. If you have exhausted your resources or have found more than one opinion yes do ask and you may find there is more than one way to skin a cat or even that the cat may not need to be skinned after all.

EMS is not a cuddled type profession. Never has been and never will be. No matter what you may want or desire. If you think differently it's a time for a reality check. Yes, we eat our young and only those that are strong enough will survive. If the profession and the interest of the patient is really worth much; one will have to dig in and learn to survive. Even after nearly 32 years, I still have to strive to be better. My clinical practice requires it, my reputation demonstrates it and my professional self ego and drive will not settle for anything less. This means I have to continuously read, study and re-evaluate myself. One of the many ways I accomplish is to learn off others even within this forum. I will read new studies presented, I may have to refresh to be sure I am correct before posting.

I never assumed forums as a "buddy" place. Hugs and sweet sayings are for other type of forums. If you need self assurance; you will get it in a blunt no barred method. Not saying I have not met some wonderful peers both in person and on line.

Alike I said I receive several IM's and e-mails daily wanting a more specific non-watered down discussion. I would like to have more of those that are really involved within the EMS system other than just those that are starting out. I would had loved to have such a thing when I was starting out. There was nobody in EMS to be considered a veteran and there was no way of sharing information other than direct communications. Look at the advantages we offer and can give to each other.

Alike within EMS, one has to realize just because you become a member, you are not an immediate family member. Before evaluating and criticizing be sure you know and understand what the common operation is.

R/r 911

 

[VFFforpeople]

I would like to apologize for my actions yesterday in another post. I did not have respect to others in here. I got defensive when people put down VFFs. We all do the same job, and that what I like about it here, is everyone respects that. Some are a little more cold shoulder to VFFs or other volunteers, due to bad experiance. I did not take that in consideration. So daedlaus and ridryder I apologize, and I resepct your level of education that I hope to attain one day.

 

[medichopeful]

Alright everybody, this has been a very helpful thread. Rid, you have helped me see why some people on here are the way they are. And I have to say, that at times I can see why that is acceptable.

It would be nice if people could be a little bit nicer or more polite, but it seems like I will have to just learn to deal with it. I realize that people are just trying to help, and I am just not accustomed to the way it is done here. I am not saying it is wrong, just something that I am not used to.

Any other thoughts are welcome. Thanks for the discussion so far. It has been pretty helpful.

Eric