Legibility of Posts

[BossyCow]

I confess to having a little spell checker who lives in my head. I did proofreading in the 'before spell check' days. I have misspelled words in this forum, generally due to typo rather than inability to spell.

I think though,the comments about 'who cares, it's just a forum' can be a problem. If we don't review what we've written for clarity, we run the risk of our intentions being misconstrued. All of us should re-read our posts before hitting that submit button.

The point of using good grammar is to avoid misunderstanding. As in the title of the fun little grammar book that was on the top 10 last year.. "Eats Shoots and Leaves". The tag line on a joke where a Panda walks into a bar, has a snack, shoots the bartender and then flees. Clarity is the important thing. How many threads have the content... "That's not what I meant"?

 

[Guardian]

Many successful executives in fortune 500 companies can not communicate, in writing, above a fifth grade level with out their secretaries and administrative assistants.

I'm going to have to call you out on this, name one. These people are probably some of the best communicators (in writing too) on the planet.

 

[Rattletrap]

I'm going to have to call you out on this, name one.

I am going to defer this to firetender's post

As far as spelling and grammar goes, I left EMS in 1985 and pretty much have supported myself since writing for executives who can't put a subject together with a verb on paper.

 

[TheDoll]

So I guess me and my dyslexic self should not post anything for R/R to read. Ugh excuse me while I go bang my head into the wall. "Highly" educated people (or those who think they are) make me sick!

i'm not surprised that you feel that way considering the tone of this thread, but i hope that you will continue to participate on this forum. i'm sorry that you have been made to feel this way, as well. when i started reading this thread my first thought was "well, what is someone who is dyslexic supposed to do? sit quietly and read?". dyslexia along with other disabilities is one reason that i rarely make mention of someone's incorrect grammar or spelling. another reason is that i view forums like this more as discussions that people are having and less like text that needs to be orderly. i also don't correct people's poor grammar or incorrect pronunciation of a word when i'm just having a conversation with them.

in addition, i'm on a few different message boards, and i have never found it impossible to figure out what someone is trying to say--and i've read a lot of drunk posts!

i understand that it is important to communicate effectively, and i realize that some people will look down on others for incorrect spelling or grammar. however, i hope that on these message boards people can overlook spelling mistakes, etc. and continue to focus on teaching and learning from each other. i hope also, that people will understand that some of these errors are due to disabilities and not a result of laziness or "stupidity" (i hate that word). perhaps, everyone could just think twice before pointing out an error, and understand that it could have taken the author an incredible amount of courage to post the post that they wrote.

also, to help those people who get picked on for spelling...
http://foxfire.com/
download and use this browser. it will point out most of your spelling errors with a red line under the incorrect word. then, you can right click on the word in question and get a list of possible correct spellings. then, click (just a regular left click) on the word of your choice from your shortcut menu, and voila! your word is inserted into the text.

i hope we all get back to enjoying the boards soon. i've learned so much from hanging around here!

 

[MMiz]

As an English teacher, I've had many students who are dyslexic. Every day I grade papers and journal responses from dyslexic students. I've found that most of my dyslexic students are just as capable of communicating on paper as other students. While I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to jump into the thread quite yet, I don't believe it's appropriate to make this a disability issue.

 

[Guardian]

I am going to defer this to firetender's post

It usually all comes back to firetender in some way, shape, or form. So basically you don't know any, huh? I don't mean to be hard on you, but if you make a claim, you need to be able to back it up. People do actually read your posts and take them seriously.

 

[Rattletrap]

It usually all comes back to firetender in some way, shape, or form. So basically you don't know any, huh? I don't mean to be hard on you, but if you make a claim, you need to be able to back it up. People do actually read your posts and take them seriously.

I do know 2 bank VP's for Chase bank and a good friend of mine who just sold his company for about 8 mill. payable over 4 years.

I just was being lazy and not up to the challenge, as I was yesterday.

I am able to pm you the info on them if you wish.

 

[TheDoll]

As an English teacher, I've had many students who are dyslexic. Every day I grade papers and journal responses from dyslexic students. I've found that most of my dyslexic students are just as capable of communicating on paper as other students. While I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to jump into the thread quite yet, I don't believe it's appropriate to make this a disability issue.

i completely respect that you don't want to jump in this thread at this time, but it sounds like you have a lot to offer! i apologize if my comments were inappropriate in any way. i understand that this is more than just a disability issue, and i'm sure there is a LOT that i don't know about dyslexia. however, that was one of the first things i thought of when i read this thread, and i felt it needed more of a voice. also, i saw a guy get torn apart on a message board for his spelling--it turned out that he was dyslexic. i felt really bad for that guy. it was just heartbreaking to read the thread and see how he was treated.
anyway, like i said, i respect that you might not want to get involved in this debate, but it sounds like we might learn a lot from your position...perhaps, especially me!

 

[Guardian]

I do know 2 bank VP's for Chase bank and a good friend of mine who just sold his company for about 8 mill. payable over 4 years.

I just was being lazy and not up to the challenge, as I was yesterday.

I am able to pm you the info on them if you wish.

I thought we were talking about fortune 500 executives, not branch managers or some guy who sold a business.

 

[Rattletrap]

I thought we were talking about fortune 500 executives, not branch managers or some guy who sold a business.

I never stated I knew fortune 500 executives.

I started to send a PM, I then realized that this is a case of someone trying to discredit information by trying to make it personal.

If you really desire this information, I would suggest you go to your local College or university and speak to the dean or chairman of the Business department.

I came across the information as part of one of my classes. My degree is in Business Administration with a Specialty in Computer Information Systems. The discussion was about effective communications.

I would also suggest that you talk to the presidents of a few colleges and universities, and ask them about how they depend on others to make them look good in their written communications.

Forget the wet noodle on this one.

 

[jrm818]

also, to help those people who get picked on for spelling...
http://foxfire.com/
!

Intentionally ironic? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Ridryder911]

I have witnessed many executives, commissioners, administrators, attorneys all that are dependent upon their assistants to properly write and communicate. That is one of the traits of a good manager.

It is not that they cannot or could not recognize gross errors; rather that they have usually performed such tasks multiple times before reaching that position, they much rather spend more time that is considered being more productive.

I can not tell you how many re-writes that I performed while working as a bureaucrat. Not because of grammar or spelling, rather a wrong tone, or too much or lack of information was given, or it did not present the "supposed author" in the right light, etc.

The same as when I worked in a law office. Very few times, I witnessed an attorney personally performing their briefs or legal forms. Rather they would have a well trained legal secretary or para-legal perform it for them. Of course, they would review and make subtle changes, but with new computer programs and speciality edits, very few had to be ever modified.

Again, it is not usually because they lack the education level to perform such tasks. Most MBA's have typed and performed multiple thesis and dissertations far before they reach the executive level. The same as any undergraduate student or graduate student can attest. I know for myself, I produce at the least one thesis a week, all graded by multiple professors going over each meticulously. Each making sure there are no grammar, spelling, plagiarism and that strict adherence to the current APA format is observed.

Initially, I regretted even posting on this subject. I do believe this is definitely something we severely lack in EMS education and training. Doubtful, many had to write a thesis or detail report in their Basic to Paramedic education. Something as an instructor, I require in all levels. I believe it is essential to expose all students to develop a better understanding of current treatments and current studies than just is being presented from their outdated text. While performing this tasks, this allows them to be exposed to proper usage of scientific/technical writing skills.

I know very few in EMS that understand on how to write a proper proposal, report scientific data, and definitely do not understand statistics. All are essential subjects needed to be a professional, especially in the health care profession. Remembering providing care is just part of the job in health care.

I agree, it appears this post has got out-of-hand, but the goal was to make everyone to think.

R/r 911

 

[ffemt8978]

It's about time I add my two cents to this subject...

I, for one, do not have a problem with the occasional misspelling of a word or such. I do have issues, however, with those posts (and they are rare here) where there is absolutely no attempt to use correct spelling or grammar. We've all seen the posts that are typed using Text/SMS format or no paragraphs/sentence breaks.

Yes, this is an internet forum. Please keep that in mind because the only thing that we have to go on is what you type and how you type it. We can't see the non-verbal cues that are an integral part of verbal communications.

You will not see the CL's acting as the "Grammar Police" unless a post is very difficult to understand.

 

[Guardian]

I'm with ffemt8978; just make an effort. That's all we ask. This is a public forum and many people outside the profession read it. It's not like MMiz is going to start grading posts, although that would be funny. If we are ever going to be professionals, we must at least start pretending to be educated.

 

[MMiz]

An online discussion forum is a funny place. I only know a member by what he or she types, and by reviewing only limited data in a profile/postbit.

I believe that it's essential to be an effective communicator, whatever that may mean. During staff meetings, I always watch in amazement as members of our PTSA get lost in our conversations. We have acronyms, "educanto," and a whole language that can be overwhelming as an outsider. Everyone sitting at the meeting has at least BA degree, and most have training/experience in speaking and discourse. Because of that, the type and formality of communication is much higher than a general EMS discussion.

With EMS, we have some who haven't even graduated high school working alongside those with MD/PHDs. There really is no common language/education level beyond the most basic EMT-B curriculum. I know that many EMT-Paramedic programs don't even require the most basic Rhetoric/English courses as pre-requisites, and it's entirely possible that an EMT-Paramedic can get through training without any type of formal instruction on writing.

Because of that, and the diverse online community we serve, I've come to accept our community members for not only how they say things, but more importantly, what they say.

That said, reading one large paragraph on an internet forum, as has happened several times in this thread, seems like just long rant to me. I believe that using basic grammar (paragraphs, capitalization, and punctuation) is essential to communicating both online and in "real life."

TheDoll, I will admit that when I see posts without the most basic grammar rules, I tend to skip them. It's not that I'm anal about proper grammar, but it frustrates me to have to read one huge run-on sentence or thought.

I teach more students with writing and reading disabilities than any other regular education teacher. The focus on my training as an English teacher is on the teaching acquisition of reading and writing.

Difficulty with spelling is absolutely part of some disabilities, and I understand that. As a teacher I do not have to accommodate students who have been provided the tools and equipment to assist with their disability, but choose not to use them. What I don't understand is when my students with disabilities turn in a paper that is riddled with errors, even after two drafts, two peer editing sessions, and use of a computer equipped with spell check.

Because of my own horrendous spelling, I use Mozilla FireFox when I surf the web. It automatically spell checks any text box as I type. In fact it found three spelling errors that I made simply by typing too fast. Knowing that the software exists, and knowing that spell check exists, why not use it?

Again, my position is that your posts online are representative as you as a person. From my own personal communications, I know that the posts in this community are read by CEOs of major EMS equipment providers, and other leaders in the EMS field (publishers, practitioners, executives). Why not try to put out the best image possible?

The bigger picture, without rambling too much, is that every post you make on EMTLife is representative of EMS as a whole. When we all read a story in the news section about an EMT doing something illegal/stupid, unfortunately we all know that it reflects on our entire industry in a negative light. When I read stories about teachers stealing money or doing inappropriate things, I always shake my head, as I know that casts a negative light on my profession. Knowing that, I believe the thread was started with the intent of asking everyone to be mindful of our contributions to our community and profession, and to be as professional as possible, which often means using some basic grammar skills.

Despite being an English teacher, I don't stop reading a sentence when you make a mistake. I don't get out my green flair pen and start marking on my computer screen. I don't correct my friends with their grammar and usage, even though I do cringe every time I hear "The Way I Are" on the radio. <<< Emoticon thrown in just to prove that I'm a commoner!

In the words of a famous man/movie character; "That's all I got to say about that."

 

[TheDoll]

thanks for weighing in, mmiz. i knew you would have some great points, and i agree with what you are saying--except about the bit on using capitalization where appropriate jk. i'm still not going to follow that rule when it comes to typing on a message board.

i understand that it can be frustrating trying to read a post full of error after error. i also use mozilla firefox, and posted a link to it earlier for anyone who would like to download it. you're right, using some tools can make a huge difference whether you are dealing with a disability or not.

 

[BossyCow]

I am extremely dsylexic myself and often have to re-read and edit posts for clarification. It doesn't make it impossible (had to type that word 3 times!) it just makes it a bit more ... involved. My biggest challenge with my dsylexia in the field is an absolute inability to tell right from left without doing the little L with my hands trick. (I've learned to be subtle) and no sense of the passage of time (I write down the time everything happens!)

Why perceive a comment about "Gee, let's try to spell better" as a bash on disabilities. Can't we just be objective enough to see where it applies to our behavior, see how we can improve, and how to be better understood? I get no end of razzing from co-workers and friends on my issues with time. But I choose not to take it personally.

 

[princess]

I'm curious, what is the "little L with my hands trick?" I've never heard of it. :blush:

 

[Summit]

All internet communities establish their own unspoken minimal levels of acceptable grammar, spelling, punctuation, and writing structure. Generally, this site is acceptable to me. I am not always formal in my postings here. My style tends to vary depending on the subject being discussed.

We don't want the likes of this guy

popping up on our screen every time we make a post. At the same time we don't want this place to devolve in the posting mannerisms of EMTFiREGURL911 (see http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4890 for reference).

I'd hate to see a communal ban on generally accepted internet coloqialism such as emoticons, acronymns like LOL, or memes such as this most apt one:

 

[Meursault]

I'd never seen that version before. You win this thread.