Help me get my drugs!

[NomadicMedic]

A bit off topic, but if you are that far out in the boonies, why do you even need to lock things in a cabinet?

Are you serious? Do you advocate just keeping the narcs on a shelf?

C'mon. I know you like to be the voice of opposition in threads, but "why do you need to lock things up?" is just ridiculous.

 

[Veneficus]

Are you serious? Do you advocate just keeping the narcs on a shelf?

C'mon. I know you like to be the voice of opposition in threads, but "why do you need to lock things up?" is just ridiculous.

No its not, I have worked for services that have locked things, services that didn't, and also services where you wore your narcs on your belt.

If you are in an area where you are constantly out of your vehicle with largely unrestricted access to it, then a lock isn't a bad idea. Of course locking the whole vehicle isn't a bad idea.

But honestly, in suburbs or rural areas where access is limited, and you are actually taking your equipment with you when you go to a patient, what really is the point of adding a lock?

The only time I have ever seen narcs stolen in any environment, it was from employees.

I have heard of a few reports of crews being threatened for them, and let's be honest, if somebody threatens you for drugs, just hand them over, it is not worth the fight. Hell, I'd even give them the needle and the syringe too.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Sure, I agree that handing over the narcotics in a theft is a good idea,and I don't disagree with keeping your narcs on your person... but c'mon, when referring to storing controlled substances, making a statement like yours, "why do you even need to lock things in a cabinet" is pretty silly. Obviously this guy's system has a policy in place that says something like, "narcotics will be locked in a cabinet". He's not asking if he should change the policy, he's asking for ideas on how to open the door...

And since we've taken this off topic, lets get back to it.

 

[med109]

What is more important, getting the lock box open, or how much a lock smith is going to cost? There are limited options for getting into the cabinet without destroying it.

Cost isn't an issue at all. The other poster implied that calling a locksmith would be cheaper than destroying it, At this point IF I could get a locksmith to come, it probably wouldn't be any cheaper than forcing my way into the cabinet. SO I came here to see if there were any better ideas than destroying it.

Even though we are rural we still have to follow state laws for narcs, which is to lock them up

 

[Veneficus]

Cost isn't an issue at all. The other poster implied that calling a locksmith would be cheaper than destroying it, At this point IF I could get a locksmith to come, it probably wouldn't be any cheaper than forcing my way into the cabinet. SO I came here to see if there were any better ideas than destroying it.

Even though we are rural we still have to follow state laws for narcs, which is to lock them up

You got to do what you got to do.

 

[DrParasite]

Cost isn't an issue at all.

and yet, you wondered what the cost would be to bring a locksmith out on the weekend....

do you only have one ambulance? if not, switch into the back truck. take it OOS (due to mechanical reasons), and have the locksmith show up on monday, using the backup with spare equipment over the weekend.

if you only have one, downgrade it to BLS, and mutual aid a paramedic unit from you neighbor.

at midnight on saturday night is not the time to be dealing with the issue that requires a locksmith, unless you have no other option.

and if you do have no other option, than expect to pay a whole lot of money, but if you need the service, it won't be cheap.

 

[Christopher]

Call a supervisor, take the bus out of service...then call the fire department/locksmith (the fire department loves breaking stuff)

It is a lesser known fact of the fire service, but you are allowed to call them at all hours of the day/night if it involves them breaking something without getting in trouble. This is almost as popular as bringing the station cookies or other food products.

 

[Christopher]

Even though we are rural we still have to follow state laws for narcs, which is to lock them up

Hell State laws aren't the bigger issue, behind two locks is what you need for the schedule narcs.

That being said folks could keep them on their person going forward.

We've adopted keyed cabinets with smaller "valuable safes" inside the cabinet. They're a good balance of regulatory requirement and common sense.

1. If somebody wants your drugs, they'll get your drugs.
2. If you try to make it very hard for folks to get to your drugs, you'll invariably keep yourself out of your drugs.

And you lock up your IO gun? We keep that in our house bag. Same with CPAP. Those are the sort of things you would rather have with you when you need them...

 

[Tigger]

And you lock up your IO gun? We keep that in our house bag. Same with CPAP. Those are the sort of things you would rather have with you when you need them...

I was wondering about that as well. Seems like I/O is more likely to be needed for something other than narc administration. Even without an IV, I have heard (and seen) IN Fent work quite well.

 

[mycrofft]

see next post

 

[mycrofft]

Go to the pharmacy or whoever supplies your meds and buy some more to tide you over, get hold of the locksmith or the people who sold you this thing for advice..

And make a backup plan for when this happens again.

 

[Handsome Robb]

A bit off topic, but if you are that far out in the boonies, why do you even need to lock things in a cabinet?

Pretty sure the DEA requires double locking of narcotics if they aren't on your person.

FWIW I have a personal digi-lock code assigned to me that works in every ambulance then there's another small metal lockbox inside the cabinet.

Even without an IV, I have heard (and seen) IN Fent work quite well.

Lies! Never seen it work the way I wanted it to.

 

[usalsfyre]

Pretty sure the DEA requires double locking of narcotics if they aren't on your person.

Nope. Just that they're secure behind a single locked door. Straight from a DEA diversion specialist mouth they have no idea where that one came from.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Nope. Just that they're secure behind a single locked door. Straight from a DEA diversion specialist mouth they have no idea where that one came from.

Must be a company policy then. They always used the DEA as an excuse!

 

[DesertMedic66]

Must be a company policy then. They always used the DEA as an excuse!

Same with us

 

[NomadicMedic]

Same with us

I'll third that. Everywhere I've worked has specified double locked controlled substances, they all cited DEA as the reason.

 

[usalsfyre]

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1301/1301_75.htm

Current DEA regulations for practitioners (which is where we fall if your following the correct set of regs)

 

[Veneficus]

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1301/1301_75.htm

Current DEA regulations for practitioners (which is where we fall if your following the correct set of regs)

Cmon, you know how it works in EMS, if some is good, more must be better.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Cmon, you know how it works in EMS, if some is good, more must be better.

It's seems to be one of those "I heard it somewhere" rules that morphed into policy. However, each state does have specific restrictions. New Jersey, for example.
(NJAC 8:41-6.3(c) :

"All substances identified in Schedules I through V of the New Jersey Controlled Dangerous Substances Act (N.J.S.A. 24:21-5 through 8.1) shall be kept under a double lock system that requires two separate keys for access, except when under the direct control of an ALS crewmember responsible for their custody."

But at the end of the day, if it is a department or company policy, the point is moot. They want two sets of locks, they get two sets of locks.

 

[mycrofft]

My last employer was DEA audited becuase of excessive shortages and oit was no fun for the bosses. TGhe staff were woefully ignorant and afterwards reverted back to their slothful ways until automated meds dispensing came in.

Two locks between the narcs and the staff not actually working with them at the time was what we were told. Now, our employer had interpreted that to be the door to the room the narcs were in (locked facility, everytbhning locked) plus a locked box or cabinet. DEA said locked box in a locked cabinet, could not be in a cabinet open to the room.
I did a thread about how field folks carry tgheir narcs once and it was eyeopening. Many said they signed for narcs at start of shift and carried them around, sometimes literally, then signed them back in.
(facepalm)
(sigh)