First Ride Along

[reaper]

My last three services have been county EMS services. All allow civilian observers, but we rarely get any. Outside of EMT or medic students, the only other ridealongs that we get are RN's or nursing students.

The trauma center here requires that the CCRN's do at least 4 12 hour ride alongs a year. Any new ER Rn must do a ride along with EMS.

Other then that, we get a politician that wants to observe once in a while.

If they are in EMT,medic or RN school, then they are hands on with me. If they are a civilian rider then they just watch. Don't care if you have a first aid card or BLS card, you are not there to have pt care!

 

[CAOX3]

I have to disagree with you here on several levels. Any and all ride alongs, even if all they can do is just observe, need to be taught. The need to get in close and you, as a preceptor, need to instruct them on each and everything you are doing for the pt; yes, even the critical ones and even as you are doing said interventions.

If you are unable to teach and perform duties simultaneously, then maybe you shouldn't have a ride along with you on your truck. Nothing against you in the least. It's just that some providers have a difficult time teaching and doing at the same time. This happens to be one of the very few times I can multitask.

By them asking what you are doing and why you are doing it on a pt while you are doing it is also an excellent time to inform your pt/loved ones as well.

All my students are required to get their hands dirty. I get them involved. I want them to ask questions. I want them near me at all times. Wherever I go, they go. We will discuss what we are expecting going to a call. We are discussing actual interventions. We are debriefing after a call. They will also get a copy of the my report, minus pt identification, from each and every call to take with them and study. I don't want my students out of my sight. How else can they learn?

This is refreshing attitude.

 

[subliminal1284]

This entire "Ride Along" thing is an interesting topic depending on where you are in the U.S. Out her in my area ride alongs are virtually non-existant. Liability issues just ruined the chances for EMS interested folks to get a taste of what EMS is. One company in particular had a really bad experience wiht ride alongs... the Medic "slept with" the 18 year old high school student doing a ride along and the company got sued by the ROP program that set this up. Obviously this is an extrme case. More commonly, the companies are concerned with the ride alongs getting hurt or, worse, the ride along hurting the patient. As far as hands on care for a ride-along... bad idea unless this is ride time set up by the EMT course.

If she was 18 what could they sue for? Did they do it while they were on duty or something?

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

If she was 18 what could they sue for? Did they do it while they were on duty or something?

Yep, in duty in the back of the rig (among other places) and an "abuse of power" as I understand it! Despite being 18 (and barely legal despite the fact that the Medic wsa 45ish) this was a high school program and a learning experience for teh students who ranged in age from 15-18. I guess this wan't the learning experiece the school and the parents wanted for their children. I was never privy to the legalities of the situation, only that the ROP program stopped soon after, the medic was fired, and the 18 y/o soon got her EMT and started working for the same company! I guess it was a good experience? :unsure: Screwed up situation...

 

[subliminal1284]

Haha what idiots, youd think they could alteast wait and meet up later. Having sex on the job is always a bad idea. lol

 

[exodus]

LOL, our company had that problem one time xD Except PD drove by the truck and saw it shaking while nobody was in the front 2 seats, so he came up and looked in the back! This was well before I started wrking here. loll

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Haha what idiots, youd think they could alteast wait and meet up later. Having sex on the job is always a bad idea. lol

On top of that I do not believe that it was even made 100% clear if she was still 17 (and underage) when this started. That's the kind of medic I want treating my children in the back of an Ambulance... one that takes a 17/18 y/o student that is there to learn about EMS and screws them and their own career. :sad: I latter got a chance to work with that former 18 y/o (now an EMT) and damn could she flirt despite not being much to look at... or much of an EMT.

 

[subliminal1284]

Hey if she wasnt much to look at guess she had to take what she could get, lol.

 

[Ms.Medic]

I have to disagree with you here on several levels. Any and all ride alongs, even if all they can do is just observe, need to be taught. The need to get in close and you, as a preceptor, need to instruct them on each and everything you are doing for the pt; yes, even the critical ones and even as you are doing said interventions.

If you are unable to teach and perform duties simultaneously, then maybe you shouldn't have a ride along with you on your truck. Nothing against you in the least. It's just that some providers have a difficult time teaching and doing at the same time. This happens to be one of the very few times I can multitask.

By them asking what you are doing and why you are doing it on a pt while you are doing it is also an excellent time to inform your pt/loved ones as well.

All my students are required to get their hands dirty. I get them involved. I want them to ask questions. I want them near me at all times. Wherever I go, they go. We will discuss what we are expecting going to a call. We are discussing actual interventions. We are debriefing after a call. They will also get a copy of the my report, minus pt identification, from each and every call to take with them and study. I don't want my students out of my sight. How else can they learn?

Which is why I placed that sentence "and dont WANT to get involved" in my paragraph.
We've had "just riders", not students, come in and ride and just stand in the way trying to see "the nasties" on a critical call, but not really care whats going on around them or with the patient. Why they even came to ride is beyond me. They'll even tell you they dont care about learning or understanding, they just want to see if they can handle seeing that type of stuff.
And, Ive had students come in to ride and while intubating a patient, I say "here, place this on the tube" and literally throw it off to the side because he didnt know what I meant for him to do with it instead of asking me, and after being appalled and telling him not to do that again, the very next run, I asked him to place the c-collar on the patient while the other one held c-spine, HE DID THE CRAP AGAIN !!!!!!! Threw the fn c-collar to the side of the patient while I was cutting clothes off to look for anything else life threatening. If Im in the middle of a critical call, and talking to/working with my partner, focusing on my patient, looking and thinking to myself whats best for the patient, Im not slowing my roll to explain something for a student, it can wait until afterwards. I have to be a patient advocate too. They need to keep up. When they come on in the morning to ride, they should be checking the unit with you, and if they come across something they dont know how to use or what it is, they should ask and be familiar with it. We're not here to babysit them, or hand them all the information for them to pass their class with.....It takes Initiative, even as a student. In my opinion. I had to do it as a student and I managed quite well waiting until afterwards to discuss something bad, and learning on my own by playing with the "toys" in the unit and asking questions then. What the h%LL ??? All I can say is GEEZ, just start praying !!!

 

[reaper]

But, that is part of teaching. If you are not a person that can do it, then inform your supervisors that you do not want students. Not everyone is cut out to teach. No matter how critical the Pt is, there is time to teach as you go. The student may have a question on something that is happening now, but forget it later. They are overwhelmed with stuff they have never seen before.

I always have them watch something the first time and explain as I go. The next time, they are helping with it. This is how they learn.

That is one of my pet peeves in EMS. Preceptors that cannot teach. They became preceptors by experience or pulse. Neither means you can teach!

 

[Ms.Medic]

Well, one of my pet peeves is students or third riders who are in it for the lights and sirens and not patient care........The ones that dont care/dont want to learn on their own, AS WELL AS ON CLINICALS, and who are just there to be in the middle of the drama !!!!

 

[trevor1189]

I definitely think that ride alongs should be allowed for people interested in getting into EMS, or thinking about.

Even though I am a ride along I have been progressively allowed to do more and more with the EMTs permission. If they say don't do that I don't. But the more I do the more I get a feel for how things work in the field. There are definitely things you need to learn from the books to be an EMT (and I can't wait for class to start, I'm getting antsy), but there is a lot of field experience you need to know before becoming a partner when it's just you and the other crew member.

For example, and this is just one little thing. Paramedic is on board getting ready to place an IV, partner gets out the equipment and starts ripping strips of tape to secure it in place.

I can't imagine this is something that is taught in an EMT class, but it is something I have learned to do riding along with a medic. Little things like that with every procedure add up and save time. I think once you can start anticipating what the paramedic is going to ask for you can be a real asset to the crew, and not just be someone to work around.

Also, if I was riding with someone I hadn't ridden with before I would tend to hold back and be more of an observer unless told to do something. As a ride along you have to get a feel for the paramedic/emt's style. Once I get a feel for their method of doing things, I tend to get more hands on and do a little more.

One thing I can say is if you are the instructor and your ride along does something wrong, LET THEM KNOW. I know I myself have been told once or twice I was doing something wrong, and at the time I didn't like it, but I definitely won't make those mistakes again.

 

[Sasha]

I can't imagine this is something that is taught in an EMT class, but it is something I have learned to do riding along with a medic

Actually there was a section in my EMT book on how to start IVs, place four leads, etc, so you know what to do to help the medic. We were also taught to spike bags and what's what in an IV start kit so you can get things ready, and all those neat little tidbits before we were allowed to ride.

But really if that's all you're taking from "field experience" it takes very little for the medic to go "Hey, rip me a piece of tape".

 

[trevor1189]

Actually there was a section in my EMT book on how to start IVs, place four leads, etc, so you know what to do to help the medic. We were also taught to spike bags and what's what in an IV start kit so you can get things ready, and all those neat little tidbits before we were allowed to ride.

But really if that's all you're taking from "field experience" it takes very little for the medic to go "Hey, rip me a piece of tape".

Ok, and I am not in a EMT class yet so I don't know that.

But, like I said that is just one example. Knowing what the medic is preparing to do is important, and that is what I was trying to get across. If the medic uses 4 or 5 pieces of tape to secure the IV, that is just something to help you get right in the pace of things. I never said ripping tape is all I got from doing ride alongs... :glare:

The point I am trying to say is if you know little things like the O2 admin method the medic is going to request you can be more of a help than a hindrance to the crew.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

The point I am trying to say is if you know little things like the O2 admin method the medic is going to request you can be more of a help than a hindrance to the crew.

However, it should be noted that the crew probably doesn’t need your help at all (they probably can do this on their own), so your goal should be to not be a hindrance and observe/learn. If the crew wants to educate you (and they should) that is GREAT, but as was said by someone else on a similar thread, "You don't know Jack" as a newbie so trying to be an asset to the crew, while admirable, shouldn’t be your focus. Observing, not the technical side of things, but how to provide quality patient care and to be a sound EMS provider should be the most important thing a ride along takes away

 

[Sasha]

Those who are there for observation purpouses only may seem like a voyeur to the patient who has called you at a vulnerable time in their life. If the EMT, Medic or Nursing student can be included in the treatment, then they should.

That is why I'm against non student riders. They shouldn't be included in treatment due to the fact that the back of a truck is small and crowded and they have zero education.

You may see someone enthusiastic about being an EMT student, the patient may see it as someone who is nosy and wants to see all the good gorey stuff.

 

[trevor1189]

However, it should be noted that the crew probably doesn’t need your help at all (they probably can do this on their own), so your goal should be to not be a hindrance and observe/learn. If the crew wants to educate you (and they should) that is GREAT, but as was said by someone else on a similar thread, "You don't know Jack" as a newbie so trying to be an asset to the crew, while admirable, shouldn’t be your focus. Observing, not the technical side of things, but how to provide quality patient care and to be a sound EMS provider should be the most important thing a ride along takes away

Most likely, they don't need my help. But why not offer it if I am there? Also, I don't see how learning the "technical side of things and learning how to provide quality patient care" are mutually exclusive.

 

[Ridryder911]

I definitely think that ride alongs should be allowed for people interested in getting into EMS, or thinking about.

Even though I am a ride along I have been progressively allowed to do more and more with the EMTs permission. If they say don't do that I don't. But the more I do the more I get a feel for how things work in the field. There are definitely things you need to learn from the books to be an EMT (and I can't wait for class to start, I'm getting antsy), but there is a lot of field experience you need to know before becoming a partner when it's just you and the other crew member.

For example, and this is just one little thing. Paramedic is on board getting ready to place an IV, partner gets out the equipment and starts ripping strips of tape to secure it in place.

I can't imagine this is something that is taught in an EMT class, but it is something I have learned to do riding along with a medic. Little things like that with every procedure add up and save time. I think once you can start anticipating what the paramedic is going to ask for you can be a real asset to the crew, and not just be someone to work around.

Also, if I was riding with someone I hadn't ridden with before I would tend to hold back and be more of an observer unless told to do something. As a ride along you have to get a feel for the paramedic/emt's style. Once I get a feel for their method of doing things, I tend to get more hands on and do a little more.

One thing I can say is if you are the instructor and your ride along does something wrong, LET THEM KNOW. I know I myself have been told once or twice I was doing something wrong, and at the time I didn't like it, but I definitely won't make those mistakes again.

Not to be rude, but what authority do you have to make an opinion? Really, you have not even started an EMT class but will discuss on what should be or not be allowed? This would be alike me discussing what medical school students should be exposed to while in medical school or in residency.

Sorry, I totally disagree with ride alongs. I don't need voyeurs I need medical professionals to assure treatment. I don't want someone that wants to see some action. Sorry, this is not the 70's and almost everyone that even has an interest can determine what the goal or function of EMS is. Ride along in schools are clinicals. They should meet and be trained/educated enough to assist or at least know enough to get out of my way.

How would you feel knowing the bank teller or grocery clerk that thought about a change of life might be in the back of the EMS unit as your loved one will be viewed and everything discussed will be seen and heard by that person that has no ties or real reason to be there except to gawk.

I don't need any additonal person to "tear my tape" drain my IV line, nor see my females chest while I do a XII lead. I have enough responsibility to assure safety to my patient, partner and others at the scene. While making a differential diagnosis and administer treatment. I don't mind students as there is a purpose and those have well written goals, objectives and are responsible to someone. Not to also mention the liability, and the possible risks these "observers" are exposed to.

Do those that allow riders, ask each patient and person prior to any potential viewing, or before asking pertinent questions as described per HIPAA? Just one slip of the tongue or referrence could be detrimental to an EMS.

Want to be an EMT take the course... it's simple enough.

Would you mind a non-medical person to be in observing your physician while he examines and checks your prostate or perform a pelvic? The same issues...

R/r 911

 

[trevor1189]

Not to be rude, but what authority do you have to make an opinion? Really, you have not even started an EMT class but will discuss on what should be or not be allowed? This would be alike me discussing what medical school students should be exposed to while in medical school or in residency.

Sorry, I totally disagree with ride alongs. I don't need voyeurs I need medical professionals to assure treatment. I don't want someone that wants to see some action. Sorry, this is not the 70's and almost everyone that even has an interest can determine what the goal or function of EMS is. Ride along in schools are clinicals. They should meet and be trained/educated enough to assist or at least know enough to get out of my way.

How would you feel knowing the bank teller or grocery clerk that thought about a change of life might be in the back of the EMS unit as your loved one will be viewed and everything discussed will be seen and heard by that person that has no ties or real reason to be there except to gawk.

I don't need any additonal person to "tear my tape" drain my IV line, nor see my females chest while I do a XII lead. I have enough responsibility to assure safety to my patient, partner and others at the scene. While making a differential diagnosis and administer treatment. I don't mind students as there is a purpose and those have well written goals, objectives and are responsible to someone. Not to also mention the liability, and the possible risks these "observers" are exposed to.

Do those that allow riders, ask each patient and person prior to any potential viewing, or before asking pertinent questions as described per HIPAA? Just one slip of the tongue or referrence could be detrimental to an EMS.

Want to be an EMT take the course... it's simple enough.

Would you mind a non-medical person to be in observing your physician while he examines and checks your prostate or perform a pelvic? The same issues...

R/r 911

*While I respect your degrees and certifications, who are you to tell me what I can and cannot discuss? I am in no way misrepresenting myself and everyone on these forums has the option to agree or disagree with me. What I don't appreciate is being dismissed.

*Who are you to say I am not? When you make things personal like that you cause problems. I meet all the requirements to ride along and assist and EMT-B/P on a call.

*I have also observed a doctor and I have never been denied permission by a patient to observe. Similarly, I have also been asked by patients on the ambulance if I am a student, and have never heard any objections to my being there.

My apologies for wishing to further educate myself though. Now that I know you disapprove, I will stop observing.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

*While I respect your degrees and certifications, who are you to tell me what I can and cannot discuss? I am in no way misrepresenting myself and everyone on these forums has the option to agree or disagree with me. What I don't appreciate is being dismissed.

*Who are you to say I am not? When you make things personal like that you cause problems. I meet all the requirements to ride along and assist and EMT-B/P on a call.

*I have also observed a doctor and I have never been denied permission by a patient to observe. Similarly, I have also been asked by patients on the ambulance if I am a student, and have never heard any objections to my being there.

My apologies for wishing to further educate myself though. Now that I know you disapprove, I will stop observing.

Someone pop some popcorn, grab a beer, and sit back; this is gonna be interesting... B) Be gentle R/r, he is young and knows not what he says...