Firearms for EMS

It is just not in Alaska that there are problems: and not just for response for a bear attack.

If you respond to a rancher or hiker injured (fell, broken leg for example); in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Washington St, Oregon, California: when you are dispatched they won't always send a ranger or deputy with the call.
You get to the scene and a Bear or Mtn Lion is attracted by the scent of blood from injured person; or a moose is in the area; (moose have attacked people even when not in mating season).

So it is a legitamate concern; but would have to be covered on an area by area basis. Plus, you will run into problems if someone on the truck is afraid of guns, etc.
 
guttruck said:
IMO if you think it's going to hit the fan ..............stage and call a LEO
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ok, in the areas we a talking about, there arent municipal police forces. the areas are serviced by state or federal troopers, RCMP, or maybe county officers. We are talking response times in hours by car, and then into the wilderness by foot or quad. Maybe you get air support IF they troopers are in the area training or running flight ops, but thats a total crap shoot. If you live in areas like this, your familiar with the use of firearms, cause you have been shooting, hunting and trapping since you were 10 years old. firearms safety has been drilled into you from the youngest age. If i have to go out into an area, and the only person i have to rely on to defend myself is me, then im bring some firepower.

Cops drive around with loaded shotguns and carbines every day and they dont just go off, properly mounted in an over head rack with a lock, there shouldnt be an issue
 
fortsmithman said:
This thread is not about arming EMS with sidearms. This is about rural EMS who may encounter wildlife such as bears and cougars. In my area we have black bears, cougars, wolves, and wolverines as predators. There have been call where we have gone into the bush to treat someone in an area where we might run into a wild predator. My ideal firearm would either be a rifle of at least ab .270 calibre or a 12 gauge winchester defender shotgun with 00 buckshot. The firearm would remain locked up stored empty with ammunition also locked up in a separate area. It would only be taken out and loaded only when in an area where we may run into a predator. When we've completed the call an were safely on our way the firearm would be emptied and stored in a secure area. I would like to know from other rural EMS personnel how they feel about this.
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Back to the original question.... A 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot would be ideal. I would suggest a pump action over a semi-auto to avoid possible jams. Also consider a .44 magnum or greater handgun as another possibility that could easily be carried in a holster, thus freeing up your hands to treat your patient. I would avoid a high-power rifle as while this time of firearm is quite effective at longer ranges, there are just better options available for the closer ranges you would encounter in an EMS situation.
 
ol' poke said:
Back to the original question.... A 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot would be ideal. I would suggest a pump action over a semi-auto to avoid possible jams. Also consider a .44 magnum or greater handgun as another possibility that could easily be carried in a holster, thus freeing up your hands to treat your patient. I would avoid a high-power rifle as while this time of firearm is quite effective at longer ranges, there are just better options available for the closer ranges you would encounter in an EMS situation.
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The Winchester defender is a pump action as for the the pistol that would be a nono here in Canada. Here in Canada not even our police can carry their sidearms off duty. Besides I would much rather use a rifle or a shotgun as a defensive weapon. My choice would be a Lee-Enfield no 4 or no 5 the calibre for those who don't know is .303 british It has a detachable 10 round magazine. The power of the cartridge is equal to a .308 win.
 
johnrsemt said:
It is just not in Alaska that there are problems: and not just for response for a bear attack.

If you respond to a rancher or hiker injured (fell, broken leg for example); in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Washington St, Oregon, California: when you are dispatched they won't always send a ranger or deputy with the call.
You get to the scene and a Bear or Mtn Lion is attracted by the scent of blood from injured person; or a moose is in the area; (moose have attacked people even when not in mating season).

So it is a legitamate concern; but would have to be covered on an area by area basis. Plus, you will run into problems if someone on the truck is afraid of guns, etc.
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How do you fend off a mountain lion? Aren't you supposed to throw things and make noise to scare it away?
 
I'm talking about without killing it. Wouldn't you rather just scare it off?
 
Do I think at times it could be a waste of police resources? absolutely. Do I think rural areas should arm EMS crews with guns? no. My city mentality says "more guns = more problems."
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I suppose it's all in what you are used to. I would feel pretty safe with pepper spray to ward off most animals, but you couldnt pay me enough to respond to an inner city call without being armed! The extremely strict gun laws in most cities equals out laws with guns and everyone else vunerable! Just my opinion!
 
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Maybe a gun with like tranquilizers or something instead of bullets. That way no one is in danger of killing someone else and the animal doesn't get killed either but it's no longer a threat.
 
Sasha said:
Maybe a gun with like tranquilizers or something instead of bullets. That way no one is in danger of killing someone else and the animal doesn't get killed either but it's no longer a threat.
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well, that will work!:)
 
Sasha said:
Maybe a gun with like tranquilizers or something instead of bullets. That way no one is in danger of killing someone else and the animal doesn't get killed either but it's no longer a threat.
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Tranquilizers are not immediate effect weapons.
 
Sasha said:
Maybe a gun with like tranquilizers or something instead of bullets. That way no one is in danger of killing someone else and the animal doesn't get killed either but it's no longer a threat.
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No, tranquilizers arent immediately effective, there is still enough time for a grizzly, a black bear, or a cougar to get to me before the drug takes effect. A male grizzly can run at about 30 mph, thats 1 ton of angry claws and teeth covering 100yds in under 6 seconds, a 220lb cougar can jump 40ft from a stand still and can run up to 40mph. i cant run that fast or jump that high, im a soft fleshy meat sack.

So if it comes to me and and animal ripping my face off, i know a .30-06 from my M1 garand works the first time, every time. I have no desire to put it to sleep for a little. Me or him, and i like to win.

Best bet is a rifle in .303 or 30-06, depends on whats readily available in your area. If your looking for a shotgun, cant go wrong with a mossberg 500, alternate loads of 00 buckshot and a slug. I would look into similar gun retention solution used by LEOs. They make off-the-shelf locks that can mount behind you head into the wall between your cab and box holding the firearm parallel to the box, or a bracket that holds fire arm muzzle down or muzzle up between the front seats. i find muzzle down to be the best configuration for easily removing yourself and the firearm in a controlled fashion from the vehicle.
 
Bullets said:
Best bet is a rifle in .303 or 30-06, depends on whats readily available in your area.
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You can pick up a military surplus M-1 Garand for about $200 in the US.
 
bigbaldguy said:
They are on Dexter!
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Yeah the writers are kind of using their creative license. Etorophine (the sedative used in deter) is a large game animal tranquilizer. In almost all cases even very diluted, it would be fatal in humans. Maybe dexter has another vial of narcan loaded up since its an opioid. Would naloxone work as an antagonist in this case and totally reverse the effects?

What if someone misses or hits an odd spot where the needle cannot penetrate? Gimme a gun
 
rwik123 said:
Yeah the writers are kind of using their creative license. Etorophine (the sedative used in deter) is a large game animal tranquilizer. In almost all cases even very diluted, it would be fatal in humans. Maybe dexter has another vial of narcan loaded up since its an opioid. Would naloxone work as an antagonist in this case and totally reverse the effects?

What if someone misses or hits an odd spot where the needle cannot penetrate? Gimme a gun
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This particular sedative is so powerful it is always shipped with it's antidote. According to wickpedia.
 
bigbaldguy said:
This particular sedative is so powerful it is always shipped with it's antidote. According to wickpedia.
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wikipedian_protester.png
 
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