Firearms for EMS

[fortsmithman]

This thread is not about arming EMS with sidearms. This is about rural EMS who may encounter wildlife such as bears and cougars. In my area we have black bears, cougars, wolves, and wolverines as predators. There have been call where we have gone into the bush to treat someone in an area where we might run into a wild predator. My ideal firearm would either be a rifle of at least ab .270 calibre or a 12 gauge winchester defender shotgun with 00 buckshot. The firearm would remain locked up stored empty with ammunition also locked up in a separate area. It would only be taken out and loaded only when in an area where we may run into a predator. When we've completed the call an were safely on our way the firearm would be emptied and stored in a secure area. I would like to know from other rural EMS personnel how they feel about this.

 

[adamjh3]

Specific training would be needed. Not everyone should be able to use it.

 

[rmabrey]

This thread is not about arming EMS with sidearms. This is about rural EMS who may encounter wildlife such as bears and cougars. In my area we have black bears, cougars, wolves, and wolverines as predators. There have been call where we have gone into the bush to treat someone in an area where we might run into a wild predator. My ideal firearm would either be a rifle of at least ab .270 calibre or a 12 gauge winchester defender shotgun with 00 buckshot. The firearm would remain locked up stored empty with ammunition also locked up in a separate area. It would only be taken out and loaded only when in an area where we may run into a predator. When we've completed the call an were safely on our way the firearm would be emptied and stored in a secure area. I would like to know from other rural EMS personnel how they feel about this.

I will have to disagree with the loading and unloading. IMO it just offers more opportunity for a ND. The less you manipulate a firearm the better.

 

[JPINFV]

I will have to disagree with the loading and unloading. IMO it just offers more opportunity for a ND. The less you manipulate a firearm the better.

More possibility than storing a loaded fire arm?

 

[rmabrey]

More possibility than storing a loaded fire arm?

Im thinking about it more and it would really depend on how it was stored in the ambulance. If its shoved in an external cabinet propped against an O2 tank it would be pretty dangerous, but if it were secured properly no.

 

[JPINFV]

Stored properly or not, the complete lack of use would make storing it loaded seem more dangerous than only being loaded when in use. Additionally, if you accidentally make a shotgun go off while loading or unloading, then you shouldn't be touching a firearm.

 

[Flightorbust]

in situations like that couldnt you just as easly have SO or DOW respond?

 

[rmabrey]

Stored properly or not, the complete lack of use would make storing it loaded seem more dangerous than only being loaded when in use. Additionally, if you accidentally make a shotgun go off while loading or unloading, then you shouldn't be touching a firearm.

Its more common then you think. Called a "Slam Fire", I normally classify most Accidental Discharges as really a Negligent Discharge, Slam Fires are one case where it truly is a AD.

I have no knowledge of how often the OP would be loading or unloading, but if its to the point where its even being considered then it probably often. I see no problem with keeping it loaded and secured. A loaded weapon will not just go off.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

It happens so rarely out here that we deal with wildlife that it just would be one more piece of equipment on the truck taking up space and adding responsibility.

 

[Cup of Joe]

I personally think that if an EMT needs a firearm or weapon, then the scene is not safe. If I wanted a gun, I'd become a cop or take advantage of the second amendment awarded to me by the Constitution. My opinion, everyone's entitled to their own.

 

[bigbaldguy]

I think if you rolled up on a scene and there was any chance a bear was waiting for you then you probably shouldn't be getting out of the truck. Even if you happened to be able to get to the truck, get the gun out load it and get a shot off you might just be dealing with a much more angry bear. That's not to say that bears aren't a legitimate risk in rural and even some urban areas. There are options for deterring bears that would entail far less liability, training, and expense than carting a rifle/shot gun around. There are bear sprays (super strength pepper sprays), and air horns, both have been proven effective in many situations.

 

[JPINFV]

I personally think that if an EMT needs a firearm or weapon, then the scene is not safe. If I wanted a gun, I'd become a cop or take advantage of the second amendment awarded to me by the Constitution. My opinion, everyone's entitled to their own.

1. I'm pretty sure that the wild beasts encountered in NY City and rural areas aren't necessarily the same, neither is the availability of police backup.

2. The second amendment doesn't work that way, and never will work that way.

 

[mycrofft]

No comment.

except to say, don't confuse a loaded firearm with a loaded firearm plus a round in the chamber.

 

[Aidey]

I personally think that if an EMT needs a firearm or weapon, then the scene is not safe. If I wanted a gun, I'd become a cop or take advantage of the second amendment awarded to me by the Constitution. My opinion, everyone's entitled to their own.

The OP is from the NTW. They have bears, moose and several other large animals that can kill a human easily. People there don't do anything outside without guns.

 

[JPINFV]

except to say, don't confuse a loaded firearm with a loaded firearm plus a round in the chamber.

Non-issue. All firearms are loaded with one in the chamber until proven otherwise.

 

[rmabrey]

Non-issue. All firearms are loaded with one in the chamber until proven otherwise.

Well said

 

[bigbaldguy]

The OP is from the NTW. They have bears, moose and several other large animals that can kill a human easily. People there don't do anything outside without guns.

Bear attacks are definitely a legitimate risk in certain parts of the states and canada. As we push further and further into bear country it's certainly reasonable to assume emergency services will increasingly have run ins with big angry critters (I hear moose can be lethal during mating season). I just think that the liability of carrying a firearm to deal with relatively rare encounters far outweigh the benefits when less lethal means are available. That said I have never had to face an 8 foot tall grizzly with nothing more than a giant can of pepper spray. I'm pretty sure though I wouldn't be any more confident facing one with a shotgun. Either way I'm pretty sure I'd be needing a change of pants post encounter.

 

[JPINFV]

Oh, and if we really want to be safe, over under that's stored broken down. They're easy to reassemble and you instantly know if it's loaded or not.

 

[medicdan]

2. The second amendment doesn't work that way, and never will work that way.

It also doesn't work for our northern neighbors in Canada. Sorry, that's absolute. It's clear the OP works in a region where animals can really pose a problem-- and where the scene can become unsafe by the entirely normal presence of a wild animal... one that could wander over while you're inside a residence, or with fairly little notice. We are invading in their normal environment, so need to be respectful, but aware of the dangers, and prepared to intervene if/when it truly becomes unsafe.

 

[bigbaldguy]

So I'm doing a little research on bear pepper sprays and found out that there is actually a legal limit for the amount of "hotness" that regular pepper spray can have but the "hotness" of bear spray is 3 to 5 times hotter. Sounds like a can of bear spray might be the way to go if your looking to tuck some pepper spray in your pocket.