Failed my oral background.

[EMTT760]

Hi everyone,

I recently applied for a local cities fire department as a part-time EMT on a ALS ambulance. After being a EMT-B doing mainly IFT transports with Critical Care Transports, I was eagerly wanting to jump into a 9-11 environment.

Tuesday I did their skills portion. Which didn't even follow any National Registry standards, as it as a series of multiple skill sets combined into one simulation. I did that and passed. Got the email inviting me back the following day.

I did my oral interview yesterday. Which consisted of 3 firefighter paramedics and a civilian human resources member. In my opinion I thought it went good, not excellent.. but I feel like I saved myself on a few questions. ( I was sick at the interview, horrible sinus congestion)They started off the usual questions like " Tell us about yourself", what do you know about the city XYZ Fire Department" I actually took time and researched the history and promptly told them everything I can remember. Me. It started as all volunteer fire company in the 1930's, serves a population of 95,000, XYZ square miles, 4 stations. I was asked " How does a red blood cell travel through a body"?. I answered as best as I could. I told them de-oxygenated blood comes into the lungs where it mixes at the alveoli capillary membrane, gas perfusion process takes place."

Then they gave me scenario based questions. " what would you do if you're told to clean the bathrooms and none of the firefighters wouldn't help you?" I told them since I'm new I would just clean it up, but if it was a pattern where the superiors wanted them to assist and they didn't, I would notify the supervisor if it was a repeated incident.

Moving onto the bad parts. They asked me what I did to prepare myself to become a paramedic. I told them I was enrolling in medic prep this upcoming semester. I feel as that answer wasn't sufficient for them, as they expected perhaps more?

The job requires at least 6 months of experience doing BLS and preferably Firefighter I academy ( not required but preferred).

My background:
1.5 years as a EMT-B doing BLS and Critical Care Transports.
Current E.R. Tech at a local hospital
In the reserve branch of the National Guard. My MOS is Medic, I taught combat lifesaver at a local military base to soldiers preparing to deploy.


I was considering writing human resources an email asking for a appeal. I don't know if it's worth it or not.

Thoughts??

 

[Jim37F]

4 station department, how many stations have ambulances? Even assuming all 4 do, you said you were interviewing to be the EMT alongside a Paramedic, so each shift only has 4 single role EMT's right? Most all of my local departments have 3 shifts, even with 4 shifts that is still only a grand total of 16 EMT's on the roster. How many of those positions are open? How many people applied and made it to the interview? You could be a very strong candidate, ranked #5 on the list, but if they're only filling 4 slots (which would be a full quarter of their positions based on my above math, and if there's less than 4 shifts and 4 ambulances, then it's more and more likely there was only one or two slots being filled and you got edged out by someone who simply scored higher), then you didn't make the cut. Sorry, just like cutting scores, you could impress your CSM and ace the promotion board but if after everything else you still only have 600 promotion points, and the cut off is 798....same thing.

I'm in a similar position myself if that makes you feel any better. Passed my written test and oral interview with a major city fire department. Just waiting on the background to sign me off before the next academy. I still have a valid military issued security clearance, never been arrested, I can count the total number of speeding and parking tickets I've received in my life on one hand......and all that means diddly squat. If they still say, "sorry, we saw something we didn't like, we're going to pass on you, better luck in the future", well, that's entirely their choice just like your department. No one anywhere is under any obligation whatsoever to just give you a job, especially one so highly competitive. Period.

Unless you have evidence you can prove in a court of law that they said "Oh it's EMTT760, naw I don't like that guy at all, even though he's the most highly qualified candidate, so let's just eff him and fail him anyway" or some other clear indication that they violated the law or their own rules somehow during the testing and hiring process, you are more likely to just waste everyones time and money. Everytime a department gets a legal challenge guess what, they have to pause the entire process. Which means the guys who did well and passed, instead of getting their background checks started or starting an academy or whatever, now they are just sitting and waiting for the legal challenges to be resolved. Do you really want to be the guy known as the one who threw everyone else under the bus and had to sue to get hired?

It's hardly the end of the world. Chances are they'll have another hiring process in a year or two. You are far better off reapplying then. In the meantime, if you can, get ahold of the department, maybe they can show you your scores and give you a breakdown so you can see where exactly you didn't measure up? Maybe you aced the skills tests but not the oral panel? Go take some oral interview prep courses. If the other way around, take a skills refresher course from your EMT school. Heck, go do both anyway. Do your medic prep course. Stay out of trouble. Volunteer for some community service. Go get your FF1 cert if you don't have it already. Learn more about the department than just bland statistics anyone can Google. Get a degree, even if it's just a general ed Associates degree, or finish your Bachelors if your already working on it. Basically check all the "nice to have" boxes to stack the deck as strongly in your favor as possible. And reapply next cycle, and get hired. No lawyer fees needed.

 

[EMTT760]

4 station department, how many stations have ambulances? Even assuming all 4 do, you said you were interviewing to be the EMT alongside a Paramedic, so each shift only has 4 single role EMT's right? Most all of my local departments have 3 shifts, even with 4 shifts that is still only a grand total of 16 EMT's on the roster. How many of those positions are open? How many people applied and made it to the interview? You could be a very strong candidate, ranked #5 on the list, but if they're only filling 4 slots (which would be a full quarter of their positions based on my above math, and if there's less than 4 shifts and 4 ambulances, then it's more and more likely there was only one or two slots being filled and you got edged out by someone who simply scored higher), then you didn't make the cut. Sorry, just like cutting scores, you could impress your CSM and ace the promotion board but if after everything else you still only have 600 promotion points, and the cut off is 798....same thing.

I was thinking the same thing initially. In all likelihood very few openings. Yes, 4 stations not sure if all 4 have ambulances or not. Your estimation sounds correct though. I get what your saying, basically I made it far enough to the chopping block where they get to cherry pick their " ideal" recruit. I tired to avoid my last CSM at JFTB Los Al. Maybe that's why I'm still a SPC/E-4..

I'm in a similar position myself if that makes you feel any better. Passed my written test and oral interview with a major city fire department. Just waiting on the background to sign me off before the next academy. I still have a valid military issued security clearance, never been arrested, I can count the total number of speeding and parking tickets I've received in my life on one hand......and all that means diddly squat. If they still say, "sorry, we saw something we didn't like, we're going to pass on you, better luck in the future", well, that's entirely their choice just like your department. No one anywhere is under any obligation whatsoever to just give you a job, especially one so highly competitive. Period.

Understood. I understand I'm not owed anything. Call me jaded, as a local native of area where the department is located I thought it be a great honor and chance to serve in a area where I grew up. In the big scheme of things having that local connection doesn't matter as someone can be trained in a manner of few weeks to learn all the major highways and roads. Ultimately they have the right to choose the best candidate for them. Maybe perhaps I went in with the wrong attitude.

Unless you have evidence you can prove in a court of law that they said "Oh it's EMTT760, naw I don't like that guy at all, even though he's the most highly qualified candidate, so let's just eff him and fail him anyway" or some other clear indication that they violated the law or their own rules somehow during the testing and hiring process, you are more likely to just waste everyones time and money. Everytime a department gets a legal challenge guess what, they have to pause the entire process. Which means the guys who did well and passed, instead of getting their background checks started or starting an academy or whatever, now they are just sitting and waiting for the legal challenges to be resolved. Do you really want to be the guy known as the one who threw everyone else under the bus and had to sue to get hired?

It's hardly the end of the world. Chances are they'll have another hiring process in a year or two. You are far better off reapplying then. In the meantime, if you can, get ahold of the department, maybe they can show you your scores and give you a breakdown so you can see where exactly you didn't measure up? Maybe you aced the skills tests but not the oral panel? Go take some oral interview prep courses. If the other way around, take a skills refresher course from your EMT school. Heck, go do both anyway. Do your medic prep course. Stay out of trouble. Volunteer for some community service. Go get your FF1 cert if you don't have it already. Learn more about the department than just bland statistics anyone can Google. Get a degree, even if it's just a general ed Associates degree, or finish your Bachelors if your already working on it. Basically check all the "nice to have" boxes to stack the deck as strongly in your favor as possible. And reapply next cycle, and get hired. No lawyer fees needed.

I agree the biggest thing potentially holding me back is my lack of education and not having a Fire I academy.

 

[CALEMT]

No one anywhere is under any obligation whatsoever to just give you a job, especially one so highly competitive. Period.

This. From what it sounds like and what Jim broke down your chances of getting hired were minimal at best. Not saying that there isn't a chance because there always is but out of the 16 on the roster and the 4 positions that they're hiring for no one took into account how many applicants were applying.

Like Jim also said. Minimal requirements just don't cut it nowadays, you HAVE to go above and beyond the bare bones minimum. If it says FF1 not required but preferred well thats a fancy way of saying if you have it you have a way better chance of getting hired.

When I was applying for seasonal firefighter last year the minimum requirements were 18 years old, high school diploma and your CA DL. I applied up and down CA (19 counties), got interviewed in 12 counties, and only got 1 offer. How do you like those odds. Also I exceeded the minimum requirements. I had my EMT, Haz Mat FRO, FF safety and survival, and my Cal Fire 80hr. Plus a couple more wild land certs. Pretty much a whole FF1 academy minus a few certs. Still out of 12 interviews which I did very well in by the way I got only 1 offer. Oh and it was my second year applying as well.

Don't be the guy to sue just to get a part time EMT job, theres plenty out there. Keep looking and don't give up applying you'll eventually land the job. In the mean time do what you can to better yourself on a application and maybe do some research on oral interview tips.

 

[gotbeerz001]

Sorry bro, you lost me at "15 years of BLS IFT".

For you to get on with the fire department full of go-getters, you're really going to need to explain why it took you 15 years to bump up to the big leagues. Not trying to be a jerk, but that's the reality.

Absolutely do not appeal the decision. Figure out a better plan for next time.

 

[EMTT760]

Yes it did take me 1.5 years. I was juggling other obligations like the military. I'm sure Jim37F can attest to being at UTA's or AT. You have to put everything on hold and report for duty. I was on SAD , State Active Duty orders for combat life saver. Then imagine having a another job on the outside and balancing those two things out. I'm older going into this i'm 28 years old. So I didn't have the luxury of being put through a self sponsored academy when I was in my early 20's\

 

[Jim37F]

Looks more like Gotshirtz missread 1.5 as fifteen not one and a half

 

[gotbeerz001]

Looks more like Gotshirtz missread 1.5 as fifteen not one and a half

Hahaaaaa. Yes. I read "15 years".
I take back everything I said earlier.

Chock it up to experience and go to a fire academy.

 

[Mufasa556]

My background:...
In the reserve branch of the National Guard. My MOS is Medic, I taught combat lifesaver at a local military base to soldiers preparing to deploy.

The next interview you do, really expand on this as how you've prepared to be a medic. Those kind of questions are for you to really sell yourself.

I'll try to do a little write up later on how to ace these kind of interviews.

 

[Tigger]

If nothing else I would at least attempt to see what it was they felt was lacking. Maybe you get no answer or maybe they won't tell you, but it's still worth a shot. No better way to prepare for the next one then being told what you can improve on by those evaluating you.