EMTs & Speeding

firetender

Community Leader Emeritus
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Here's a bit of a reality check from my POV.

Driving an ambulance, out of necessity, requires you to develop a completely different skill-set than driving your own vehicle. If you do not train yourself to immediately amp your alertness level up a couple hundred percent, you're not doing your job. (Most of us learn to do this in the ambulance and then bring that level of awareness to our personal driving.)

No matter whether you're going to or from a call, the stakes are high. Situations that ambulances find themselves in are often quite different than what Ma and Pa Grunch encounter. In a lot of respects, an ambulance responding to an emergency call becomes an inadvertent target, just because it draws attention to itself and most people do not know how to respond to emergencies themselves.

You must develop a very sharp sense of timing, speed, spatial relationships (like getting through the bottleneck without losing your side-view mirror!) and knowing the limits of every vehicle you drive. Equally important, is learning patience.

Unfortunately, moment-to-moment situations have no repect for written laws. If you're in the field long enough you will find yourself pushing the edge of the envelope and acting out of the box out of necessity, and, yes, laws will be broken along the way. Sometimes you'll make an error in judgment, but that's part of the learning curve that gets you to becoming more proficient -- as long as you learn.

If you're in a town where you get to know the local Police, hopefully, they'll give you a break only when and if their read of the circumstances and knowledge of you as a responsible medic are in synch. Just like everyone else, if you run a risk you need to accept the consequences. Cops also know what it means to have to "think at high speed." Hopefully, it's a matter of individual respect rather than blind, professional courtesy extended to you.

My point is, I think we're lying to ourselves if we say we don't think differently, and, given the right circumstances will act differently behind the wheel than the prescribed (or even legal) approaches.

It truly is a matter of carrying a heightened sense of responsibility along with the new skill-set you're asked to develop.
 

Mercy4Angels

Forum Lieutenant
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look a bit over the limit is fine but say 50 in a 25 is not necissary
 

RichmondMedik

Forum Probie
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I've never had a complaint about my driving. Knock on wood!!! Would like to see how you drive when your medic is working a cardiac arrest or priority one stabbing to the chest and hollering at you to "get him there now".

I drive the same no matter what is going on !!!

others have already said it in other posts -- a competent Medic will treat the patient no matter what is going on and the person driving will drive professionally

as for the "Cardiac arrest" the person is already dead and we can do almost the same drug/treatment wise in the field as they can in the E/R -- not talking about definitive care for the ROSC

and if the "Medic" you are with is "hollering at you" then tell him to take his own pulse and to calm down -- we are suppose to diffuse the stress in an emergency situation NOT add to it
 

Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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There are some major cities now not allowing return to ER with L/S except in very few limited circumstances... i.e CVA, STEMI AMI, etc.. Not even the cardiac arrest .. etc. is allowed. Most progressive services now have protocols for arrival of pre-cardiac arrest is to work into the second round of ALS medications, if no response from aystole is to call it quits. No documented outcome has been proven past that point. As well field ALS cardiac arrest has a better outcome percentage than in-hospital ones. Prior traumatic arrest should be called called as well, with very little to no positive outcome is known.

I believe we will see a major shift of how many decreased responses back to the hospital with L/S will occur in the future. The time saved is minimal, the risks is extremely high, and as the increased number of EVU crashes within the past 5 years, something has to be done.

I have to admit, I have accepted professional courtesy... and there are times, when I have received the deserved fine. No gripe... it's the law for a reason. We are not above it, because we ride in a EMS unit..

R/r 911
 

jmaccauley

Forum Lieutenant
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Oh i got a ticket in my uniform in front of my station for 36 in a 20....which had been until the day before a 35. I had just gotten off work...we had been sooo busy and i just wanted to go to sleep....he didnt care. PUNK

LOL, I just saw that post. Seriously, if you want to be treated as a professional, you have to act professionally. You gave 3 quick reasons for your fast driving (and the uniform really shouldn't count). You were tired, busy and didn't notice the speed limit sign.

Now, how do you treat your patients when you're tired, busy and you just want to go to sleep? Do you skip steps? Do you just hand them off to another medic? Do you miss vital signs and symptoms? I know, it's sounds like I'm picking on you, but none of those excuses warrant courtesy. You were speeding. No excuse. I would warn you that the limits have changed and to slow down, only if you acknowledged that you were speeding.
And seriously...punk?
 

firecoins

IFT Puppet
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LOL, I just saw that post. Seriously, if you want to be treated as a professional, you have to act professionally. You gave 3 quick reasons for your fast driving (and the uniform really shouldn't count). You were tired, busy and didn't notice the speed limit sign.

Now, how do you treat your patients when you're tired, busy and you just want to go to sleep? Do you skip steps? Do you just hand them off to another medic? Do you miss vital signs and symptoms? I know, it's sounds like I'm picking on you, but none of those excuses warrant courtesy. You were speeding. No excuse. I would warn you that the limits have changed and to slow down, only if you acknowledged that you were speeding.
And seriously...punk?

A blitz by cops to enforce the new speed limit knowing very well people are used top the old limit is a little less than honest by the police. I am curious how many tickets have been given to off duty cops? They should be held to higher limit but they have to enforce it on themselves. Someone always says EMS should be held to a higher limit because we respond to mvas but I don't see that as legitamate when law enforcement responds to the same mvas and get away with speeding and other minor offenses. So stop with the holier than thou attitude on speeding.
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
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I agree with the limited use of L/S. When I was on the trucks FT, I always liked to make a composed entrance into the ER. Now that I'm on the other side in the ER, I can appreciate this even more. There is nothing more frustrating then trying to listen to the incoming call that just sounds like sirens and screaming like the devil is chasing them. Some of these patients come through the door with barely BLS done on an ALS truck. If the patient looks more coherent and competent than the crew, then that is who we'll take our report from first while the paramedic is trying to compose him/herself.
 

jmaccauley

Forum Lieutenant
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A blitz by cops to enforce the new speed limit knowing very well people are used top the old limit is a little less than honest by the police. I am curious how many tickets have been given to off duty cops? They should be held to higher limit but they have to enforce it on themselves. Someone always says EMS should be held to a higher limit because we respond to mvas but I don't see that as legitamate when law enforcement responds to the same mvas and get away with speeding and other minor offenses. So stop with the holier than thou attitude on speeding.

Taking this a little personally aren't you? I don't remember discussing a "blitz" or anything dishonest. Professional courtesy is a debatable topic even among law enforcement officers. Some give it freely, others sparingly. Either way, most officers have, and exercise, discretion on each traffic stop. My concern with this thread has to do with on duty driving, but you bring up a good point. How many fire fighters and medics, as well as police officers get tickets off duty? I couldn't tell you. But I can tell you that flaunting your job (or badge) won't fly with most. Usually, nurses and waitresses actually fall into the "good guy" category too, and if the circumstances warrant it, meaning they are courteous, discretion can be used.
If you think you are above getting a ticket, maybe it's you with the "holier than thou attitude." If you wish to continue this privately, feel free.
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
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But I can tell you that flaunting your job (or badge) won't fly with most. Usually, nurses and waitresses actually fall into the "good guy" category too, and if the circumstances warrant it, meaning they are courteous, discretion can be used.
If you think you are above getting a ticket, maybe it's you with the "holier than thou attitude." If you wish to continue this privately, feel free.

25 years ago I thought it was my stunning good looks and charming personality, not the uniform or job, that got me out of a couple of tickets.;)

And yes, that could be another issue in itself.

I was constantly reminded by my superiors that wearing a uniform and working with the public in plain view carried some responsibility both on and off duty. I know LEOs are reminded of this responsibility also. Granting professional courtesy without discretion is an issue that can put them in the spotlight very easily even amongst themselves. I believe that giving AND accepting professional courtesy bears a certain responsibility in itself.
 

eggshen

Forum Lieutenant
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Here being a medic for the city is like being mobbed up. Short of homocide you are free to go about your business. Not that that means we act the fool but it is nice when you need it.

Egg
 

klogerg

Forum Probie
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If your in your POV, before or after work, you are a private citizen, you are no longer anyone special, just another person "livin the dream". Personally, I almost never speed in my POV, no need. As for at work, nothing is worth risking my own safety. I remember when i first started EMS about a year ago, I was speeding, not wearing my seatbelt because I didnt need to, and all that jazz. Now, theres no need. I like my job, I enjoy it, and at the end of the day i feel i did someone some good, but in the end, its just a job. Dont be foolish/arrogant. On or off duty, be smart, be safe, and never assume you'll catch a break for anything.
 

Emtgirl21

Forum Lieutenant
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LOL, I just saw that post. Seriously, if you want to be treated as a professional, you have to act professionally. You gave 3 quick reasons for your fast driving (and the uniform really shouldn't count). You were tired, busy and didn't notice the speed limit sign.

Now, how do you treat your patients when you're tired, busy and you just want to go to sleep? Do you skip steps? Do you just hand them off to another medic? Do you miss vital signs and symptoms? I know, it's sounds like I'm picking on you, but none of those excuses warrant courtesy. You were speeding. No excuse. I would warn you that the limits have changed and to slow down, only if you acknowledged that you were speeding.
And seriously...punk?


I ah have a comment to make to this.....but it's really not very nice. So I'm going to refrain. So ummm yeah....anyways...
 

Emtgirl21

Forum Lieutenant
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Klog....did you just say EMS is "just a job"....you funny boy!
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
Community Leader
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I ah have a comment to make to this.....but it's really not very nice. So I'm going to refrain. So ummm yeah....anyways...

Smart choice ;)
 

jmaccauley

Forum Lieutenant
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I guess your comment was defensive in nature. I don't imagine you couldn't be nice. Feel free to contact me privately if you think someone may be offended.
 

firecoins

IFT Puppet
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In another thread about this topic, I made the point that alot of speeding tickets are given out for the fine, to raise money. Stopping unsafe driving took a back seat...pun intended. It seems Virginia's road dept. is broke. From the USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-29-Va-new-driving-laws_N.htm

In an effort to raise money for road projects, the state will start hitting residents who commit serious traffic offenses with huge civil penalties.

The new civil charges will range from $750 to $3,000 and be added to existing fines and court costs. The civil penalty for going 20 mph over the speed limit will be $1,050, plus $61 in court costs and a fine that is typically about $200.
I can see the responses now. But this is only for "serious traffic offenses". My preemptive reply is in NY and NJ area tend to 10 to 15 miles above the limit normally. My 2 tickets were at 21 and 24 miles over the limit. No one here pulles you over for less than than 20. So does that warrent a $1000 plus ticket? Only if the road dept needs more money.
 

BossyCow

Forum Deputy Chief
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I live in a very rural area. I know most of the cops personnally and have worked at least one wreck with each of the troopers. I was stopped once, for speeding, unrelated to a call, in my POV. The lecture I got was worse than a ticket. So was the humiliation as everyone in town heard about it. Including the deputy who oversees our SAR unit. Public shaming worked for me!

I used to be quite a lead foot behind the wheel. After working an MVA, car vs. tree with a speeding driver who didn't make the turn, I started rethinking my need to get anywhere fast. We found parts of this guy 50' away from the burned out hulk of what was left of his car. They found his teeth imbedded into the tree.

What I've seen has taught me that it doesn't matter how good a driver one of the cars has, if the other driver isn't. We have deer, elk and the occasional horse or cow that wanders out into the road. Things can happen in front of the car quickly and without warning. You improve your reaction time by keeping your speed down.

A good exercise is to look at that car who just passed you and count how many seconds faster they get to the next intersection or their turn off. Its generally only 10 - 15 seconds faster.
 

klogerg

Forum Probie
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Klog....did you just say EMS is "just a job"....you funny boy!

Yeh, I'm a real hoot. funny aside to all of this, the person i worked with today was amazd that I wore my seatbelt. Not to put this thread off topic, but any thoughts from anyone?
 

firecoins

IFT Puppet
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Yeh, I'm a real hoot. funny aside to all of this, the person i worked with today was amazd that I wore my seatbelt. Not to put this thread off topic, but any thoughts from anyone?

if your dumb enough not to wear a seatbelt, you deserve what you get.
 

Flight-LP

Forum Deputy Chief
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If you work with my agency and get caught without a seatbelt, you are terminated, no questions asked. As it should be...................
 
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