EMT Skills Test-Question re: Closed Head Trauma

emtguy

Forum Ride Along
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I recently completed and tentatively failed an employment skills test for an EMT-B position. I say "tentatively" as there is a possibility of changing that result.

Here's the tested scenario on a mannequin:

Elderly female, unknown to witnesses (thus, no medical history available), passes out and hits head on pavement. EMS (in this case, oddly, EMT-B :)) is called. Patient presents as bleeding from the back of the head, labored and abnormal breathing with abnormal flexion positioning - arms rigid and pointing inward. This was later describe to me as decorticate positioning. Patient is conscious, non verbal with eyes tracking movement.

I took the correct steps for c-spine precautions, instituted BVM w/ 15 lpm O2 and controlled the bleeding. I indicated priority transport due to the trauma and breathing difficulty, but suggested a rapid (<2 mins) trauma assessment to uncover any potential hidden injuries prior to packaging.

This was all done quickly and correctly, and a full set of vitals indicated diverging BP of 200/40, pulse of 50 and normal resperations w/BVM. Skin was warm pink and clammy, pupils PERLL. We packaged and I indicated code 3 transport to nearest trauma center.

Where did I fail? They said because I never directly indicated unstable patient do to probably closed head injury, as indicated by the decorticate positioning and blood pressure. I have a couple of issues with this:

1. Even though I never mentioned the probability of closed head injury, I did indicate the need for priority, code 3 transport. Why would an specific diagnosis be critical? The signs and symptoms alone indicated the critical nature of the injury. Knowing the cause wouldn't have gotten the patient to the ER any faster.

2. The EMT course I took used the AAOS EMT-B textbook. Nowhere does it use the term decorticate positioning or say that diverging BP is a sign of closed head injury . It DOES mention abnormal flexion as part of the GCS scale, and obviously somebody positioning themselves like this is suffering from some sort of brain injury. The BP divergence is NOT mentioned.

I suspect this is not within the normal scope of EMT-B education, at least not in the AAOS book. Would somebody who took the course using the Brady (or similar) book PLEASE see if it is covered.

Again, I stated the need for priority transport and did nothing to endanger the patient. All other steps were performed correctly. Am I wrong to debate the failing grade?
 

HotelCo

Forum Deputy Chief
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It's covered in the brady, double check your book. Check in the index for decorticate.
 

Lifeguards For Life

Forum Deputy Chief
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I'm not sure if decorticate and decerebrate posturing in that EMT book. but the widening pulse pressure, bradycardia, and irregular respirations should be listed in that book as cushings triad, a hallmark of increased intracranial pressure. As debating the failing grade, you seem pretty solid. tough luck.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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Abnormal flexion = head tiled back to a dangerous point = don't do c-collar.

Unless I'm missing something?
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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Gah, I can't edit after the fact >_<

If there is any pain present when you attempt to move head to a normal position*
 

Lifeguards For Life

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Linus, there may or may not be pain associated with attempting to move a pts head into neutral postion. if any resitance is felt or the pt experiences any pain or discomfort leave it be.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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I am unable to edit, and added it after the fact... even though I phrased it incorrectly and still unable to edit >_<
 

EDAC

Forum Crew Member
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I recently completed and tentatively failed an employment skills test for an EMT-B position. I say "tentatively" as there is a possibility of changing that result.

Here's the tested scenario on a mannequin:

Elderly female, unknown to witnesses (thus, no medical history available), passes out and hits head on pavement. EMS (in this case, oddly, EMT-B :)) is called. Patient presents as bleeding from the back of the head, labored and abnormal breathing with abnormal flexion positioning - arms rigid and pointing inward. This was later describe to me as decorticate positioning. Patient is conscious, non verbal with eyes tracking movement.

I took the correct steps for c-spine precautions, instituted BVM w/ 15 lpm O2 and controlled the bleeding. I indicated priority transport due to the trauma and breathing difficulty, but suggested a rapid (<2 mins) trauma assessment to uncover any potential hidden injuries prior to packaging.

This was all done quickly and correctly, and a full set of vitals indicated diverging BP of 200/40, pulse of 50 and normal resperations w/BVM. Skin was warm pink and clammy, pupils PERLL. We packaged and I indicated code 3 transport to nearest trauma center.

Where did I fail? They said because I never directly indicated unstable patient do to probably closed head injury, as indicated by the decorticate positioning and blood pressure. I have a couple of issues with this:

1. Even though I never mentioned the probability of closed head injury, I did indicate the need for priority, code 3 transport. Why would an specific diagnosis be critical? The signs and symptoms alone indicated the critical nature of the injury. Knowing the cause wouldn't have gotten the patient to the ER any faster.

2. The EMT course I took used the AAOS EMT-B textbook. Nowhere does it use the term decorticate positioning or say that diverging BP is a sign of closed head injury . It DOES mention abnormal flexion as part of the GCS scale, and obviously somebody positioning themselves like this is suffering from some sort of brain injury. The BP divergence is NOT mentioned.

I suspect this is not within the normal scope of EMT-B education, at least not in the AAOS book. Would somebody who took the course using the Brady (or similar) book PLEASE see if it is covered.

Again, I stated the need for priority transport and did nothing to endanger the patient. All other steps were performed correctly. Am I wrong to debate the failing grade?

You are correct the AAOS book does not use that terminology, we are using the book in our class and I did a check in the book and also on the online glossary, neither decorticate or decerebrate are in the book. You can double check me at emtb.com where there is a searchable glossary, but I searched and it did not come up. It is something I will ask at school on Monday, we are studying pt. assessment now.
 
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Afflixion

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When I was going through basic we used the AAOS book better known as BOB Big Orange Book and it used decorticate and decerebrate but then again this was almost six years ago now or I may be thinking of the medic AAOS...

I see where your point lies in a definitive initial Dx when you are applying for a job they typically want to see your "super-sleuth" skills in finding underlying problems, in my opinion you did just about everything right when it came to treating within your scope. As for everyone talking about decerebrate positioning this was never mentioned in the scenario or I read it wrong.
 

Seaglass

Lesser Ambulance Ape
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You might try looking for flexion and extension posturing in your textbook instead of decorticate and decerebrate. As I recall, the Brady textbook used both.
 

chad bullock

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In the respiratory emergencies chapter in the aaos book it says labored, irregular respirations are a sign of a head injury. That isn't quoting word for word, I don't have the book on me and just going by what I read earlier today. By the way I have finished class and just waiting to schedule my NREMT. If anyone in class has a question I would be glad to answer if I can and tell you if I can't.
 

Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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The problem does not exists in the book. The problem is that the applicant failed to distinguish what the primary injury was and declare it and understand what your clinical impression was. Automatically, you failed to recognize one of the tale symptoms if ICP and symptoms of a severe injury. So you went fast to a trauma center? Why?

This is why you failed. They probably prefer someone who does know what posturing (both decerebrate and decorticate) and understand the reasoning of why and what it indicates.

Nothing personal, just remember to all, you are competing against those with experience and those that have read additional than just what was taught to you by one source. Employers are attempting to get the most for their money.

R/r 911
 
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