EMT-B National Requirement

[Finney]

Hello everyone,

My name is Finney. I am posting this thread to gain some insight on what other states are doing about the federal requirement that requires one to accumulate 190 hours of instruction in order to become an EMT-B. I myself am not an EMT and would greatly benefit from the input of knowledge individuals such as yourselves.

As a New York resident who deals with rural communities I have observed that it is becoming increasingly difficult for volunteers to travel 1.5 hours or more for multiple days a week to reach an EMT training facility. This is resulting in a decrease in EMS volunteers. New York State has adopted these federal guidelines but I was wondering what other states are doing in regards to their EMT-B curriculum. Are there any alternatives to going to the training facility for each session (i.e. an online alternative?). The implications are very frightening when one considers a dramatic drop in volunteer services.

If anyone has any information, or knows where I could inquire to get some information, I would be very grateful.

 

[Drax]

Hello everyone,

My name is Finney. I am posting this thread to gain some insight on what other states are doing about the federal requirement that requires one to accumulate 190 hours of instruction in order to become an EMT-B. I myself am not an EMT and would greatly benefit from the input of knowledge individuals such as yourselves.

As a New York resident who deals with rural communities I have observed that it is becoming increasingly difficult for volunteers to travel 1.5 hours or more for multiple days a week to reach an EMT training facility. This is resulting in a decrease in EMS volunteers. New York State has adopted these federal guidelines but I was wondering what other states are doing in regards to their EMT-B curriculum. Are there any alternatives to going to the training facility for each session (i.e. an online alternative?). The implications are very frightening when one considers a dramatic drop in volunteer services.

If anyone has any information, or knows where I could inquire to get some information, I would be very grateful.

Can you please cite this 190 hour requirement?

 

[Medic Tim]

Hello everyone,

My name is Finney. I am posting this thread to gain some insight on what other states are doing about the federal requirement that requires one to accumulate 190 hours of instruction in order to become an EMT-B. I myself am not an EMT and would greatly benefit from the input of knowledge individuals such as yourselves.

As a New York resident who deals with rural communities I have observed that it is becoming increasingly difficult for volunteers to travel 1.5 hours or more for multiple days a week to reach an EMT training facility. This is resulting in a decrease in EMS volunteers. New York State has adopted these federal guidelines but I was wondering what other states are doing in regards to their EMT-B curriculum. Are there any alternatives to going to the training facility for each session (i.e. an online alternative?). The implications are very frightening when one considers a dramatic drop in volunteer services.

If anyone has any information, or knows where I could inquire to get some information, I would be very grateful.

To me the scary part is how low the educational standard already are. Many volunteer services push for the lower standards to keep bodies in the truck.

There are hybrid and online classes but I am not sure of any specific ones in NY.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I honestly don't think that the EMT curriculum can be condensed any further. It's already "drinking from a fire hose" for many students.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

The implications are very frightening when one considers a dramatic drop in volunteer services.

Really? Sounds great to me, more demand for professionals who want to make this a career instead of a hobby.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Really? Sounds great to me, more demand for professionals who want to make this a career instead of a hobby.

Well, in the types of communities the OP is referring to, there is no alternative because call volumes are too low to support paid services. It's either those who want to do it as a "hobby", or no one at all.

And the request was simply for ideas an alternative ways to deliver the education, not a call to lower the standards.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Well, in the types of communities the OP is referring to, there is no alternative because call volumes are too low to support paid services. It's either those who want to do it as a "hobby", or no one at all.

Ah ok cool, so by that mindset, I wonder how the nurses and doctors in that entire community feel about volunteering their time at the hospital.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Ah ok cool, so by that mindset, I wonder how the nurses and doctors in that entire community feel about volunteering their time at the hospital.

And I'm guessing the cops, teachers and garbage collectors volunteer too.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Ah ok cool, so by that mindset, I wonder how the nurses and doctors in that entire community feel about volunteering their time at the hospital.

Really man? How can you have volunteer nurses and doctors when you don't even have a hospital or a clinic for them to provide their services in?

Actually, in these small, rural communities you very often find nurses volunteer their time with the local EMS services. In fact I'd bet the average % of EMS workers who are also some other type of clinician is far higher in these rural communities than in larger ones.

You've used the "well, I don't see nurses volunteering" thing several times before, and it's a false analogy for several important reasons. The only people who fall for it are those who don't get basic market principles.

And I'm guessing the cops, teachers and garbage collectors volunteer too.

Some of these places actually do have volunteer constables. But typically there are no cops save for State Police who may be stationed quite a ways away, there is often no garbage collection, and the schools need to serve many small communities in order to collect enough students to operate.

Have you guys never spent any time in rural America?

 

[TransportJockey]

I've worked in rural America... even in frontier Texas... guess we were special because we had town and county law enforcement, clinics, and paid EMS...

 

[Tigger]

I'm mixed on this. On one hand I'm happy that the volunteer fire EMTs often beat us on scene when we have a 20-30 minute response time and can potentially provide appropriate and important treatment. Yet at the same time they often beat us but still have no idea what they're doing if the patient is remotely complex. 190 hours or more is not that much time. If it takes a year for them to be certified so be it, that's how many other countries work.

I want them to be able to serve the our communities, but I need them to do so in a meaningful way.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I live in rural America. Delaware, which prides itself on it's history in providing volunteer fire service across the entire state, has paid EMS providers, because without them the ambulance would never leave the station.

Every small town has at least one or two police officers, paid for by the community. Usually subsidized by speeding ticket fines.

Garbage service is provided by the town, as a monthly fee.

Paramedics are paid county service.


I don't buy the argument that "people won't pay for EMS". If you want it bad enough, you'll pay for it. And, if your community decides it does not want to support EMS… That's okay too.


I'm certainly not looking to turn this into a volunteer versus paid employee thread, Lord knows we have enough of those on the site.
I understand that some communities will always have volunteer first responders, firefighters and EMS providers. However, if you want to play you need to pay. Commit fully to the training.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I live in rural America. Delaware, which prides itself on it's history in providing volunteer fire service across the entire state, has paid EMS providers, because without them the ambulance would never leave the station.

Delaware is not even in the same ballpark as places like northern NY or Maine, for example, in terms of ruralness or low population density. There are many towns in NY where the drive time to a hospital is nearly as long as it takes you to drive across the entire state of Delaware. Towns with less than 100 residents and high schools that cover several towns and still graduate classes of 20 kids. That type of population density doesn't support services like you enjoy in Delaware. Many of these towns would be happy to have a private service station an ALS ambulance nearby, but the privates don't do it because there aren't enough transports for them to bother. And the tax base in these very low-population density, low income places makes it difficult for the towns or counties to fund their own services.

I have seen volunteer services cause harm by doing things like strongly opposing increases in training standards and refusing to allow paid services into their area, even though the paid services had demonstrably better response times and more highly trained personnel (ALS vs. BLS service). But those flaws are not inherent to volunteer services. I've seen paid services do similar things. There is nothing inherently better or more qualified about an EMT or who does what they do for free, vs. ones who do it for minimum wage.

I'm certainly not looking to turn this into a volunteer versus paid employee thread, Lord knows we have enough of those on the site.

I'm not a fan of the paid vs. volunteer debate, either, which is why I never start those discussions and very rarely participate in them.

But when a newbie someone comes on here and asks a legitimate question about potential alternative ways to train - NOT ways to have to train less - and folks who know nothing about these communities or EMS systems start jumping on vollies then, well, it looks like some education might be in order.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

+1 to this

I live in rural America. Delaware, which prides itself on it's history in providing volunteer fire service across the entire state, has paid EMS providers, because without them the ambulance would never leave the station.

Every small town has at least one or two police officers, paid for by the community. Usually subsidized by speeding ticket fines.

Garbage service is provided by the town, as a monthly fee.

Paramedics are paid county service.


I don't buy the argument that "people won't pay for EMS". If you want it bad enough, you'll pay for it. And, if your community decides it does not want to support EMS… That's okay too.


I'm certainly not looking to turn this into a volunteer versus paid employee thread, Lord knows we have enough of those on the site.
I understand that some communities will always have volunteer first responders, firefighters and EMS providers. However, if you want to play you need to pay. Commit fully to the training.

People WILL pay for EMS, watch how quickly it happens when its taken away. Small communities all over the world do it without so much as shedding a tear. "Education might be in order"? haha- oh please.

 

[Mainspring]

I don't have an answer to OP's question since I don't live in that area but I'll say this...

EMT-B training is not that complex. I think it could be done over the internet.

read the orange book, watch lectures over the internet, and perhaps go to a practical class spread out maybe couple times a month over 2-3 months.

It can be done like this I think, long as people are willing to put the extra time in to do it.

 

[hitman196]

And I'm guessing the cops, teachers and garbage collectors volunteer too.

Actually where I volunteer we have very few calls and any we get are serious ones. Our schools are K - 6 elementary building and 7 - 12 for the high school building. Also we have two sheriffs in the county all the other officers we call for help are anywhere from 10 min. to 30 min. So not much back up for what goes wrong.

 

[Tigger]

Actually where I volunteer we have very few calls and any we get are serious ones. Our schools are K - 6 elementary building and 7 - 12 for the high school building. Also we have two sheriffs in the county all the other officers we call for help are anywhere from 10 min. to 30 min. So not much back up for what goes wrong.

Errrr I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Most EMS calls are not "serious" in nature, doesn't matter where you are. Just something to bear in mind.