Combat Lifesaver vs. EMT/Medic

[RocketMedic]

Recommend it? I've always thought they looked a lot more professional than WBAMC/UMC or Life in El Paso- every company has its issues, but they seem to handle them well.

Life I would rather not work for.

 

[Afflixion]

From serving in special operations units, being an EMT-B currently and also currently attending Paramedic school heres how I would break it down and its pretty common sense. EMT-B's can handles just about anything a combat medic would. Their training is about equal and that is what 68W's are certified too anyways. In the order of people I would allow to care for me:

First Responder
CLS
Combat Medic
EMT-B
Special Operations Medic (18D, SOCM graduate)
Paramedic

I won't argue the reasons but its pretty simple. EMT-B's and Paramedics are trained in trauma and medical emergencies. Combat medics are trained to quickly handle emergency battlefield injuries. Slapping on tourniquets, starting IV's, maintaining the airway, triage, transport, and the like are all things that Combat medics AND EMT-B's can do. EMT-B's can also handle a wide variety of medical emergencies that I think many Combat medics learn how to handle and then never practice or study again. Spec Ops medics like my best friend (18D) are amazing especially at PT assessment and trauma emergencies. They are however NOT certified to the NREMT-P standard despite what many say. My friend however who was a 18D just graduated from Paramedic school and his internship was waived and he was able to sit for the NREMT test immediately after class because Ft. Bragg SOCOM is recognized by the NREMT to the Paramedic level. Hope this clears things up a bit, and it is just my opinion based on vast experience with care providers at all of those levels.

Sorry bro but your information is wrong I was a civil affairs medic and we all were certified as NREMT - P level, along with 18D who I sincerely doubt was a true 18D because there is less than 40 18Ds in all SF groups at any given time and they typically never leave. Civil affairs medics ranger medics and soar medics and sf medics are all trained well beyond your normal medic mill paramedic. I was completely immersed in emergency medicine for 14months 7 days a week 10hours a day while going through class. All USSOCOM medics are required to maintain their NREMT-P

 

[RocketMedic]

Sorry bro but your information is wrong I was a civil affairs medic and we all were certified as NREMT - P level, along with 18D who I sincerely doubt was a true 18D because there is less than 40 18Ds in all SF groups at any given time and they typically never leave. Civil affairs medics ranger medics and soar medics and sf medics are all trained well beyond your normal medic mill paramedic. I was completely immersed in emergency medicine for 14months 7 days a week 10hours a day while going through class. All USSOCOM medics are required to maintain their NREMT-P

"Ranger Medics" are NOT trained to NREMT-P, you are thinking of the 68W1 ASI, which is trained to that standard. There are plenty of non-paramedic 68Ws in Ranger assignments.

I've never seen the SF or CA or SOAR medical training, but I have no problems believing that they learn more than the average paramedic. That being said, it's all job-oriented...I think that a civilian paramedic receives a more balanced education in terms of medical emergencies, whereas an SF medic is nearly a PA in terms of effective training and scope (dependent on assignment).

The real odd duck is people like me- conventional Army 68Ws in conventional units who happen to be paramedics. I got written up once by an E5 for not transporting a wrist injury with deformity and loss of sensation secondary to a fall from standing in full spinal restriction...that was an entertaining night.

Seriously, paramedics and the regular Army don't usually mix.

 

[ZootownMedic]

Sorry bro but your information is wrong I was a civil affairs medic and we all were certified as NREMT - P level, along with 18D who I sincerely doubt was a true 18D because there is less than 40 18Ds in all SF groups at any given time and they typically never leave. Civil affairs medics ranger medics and soar medics and sf medics are all trained well beyond your normal medic mill paramedic. I was completely immersed in emergency medicine for 14months 7 days a week 10hours a day while going through class. All USSOCOM medics are required to maintain their NREMT-P

Um...sorry to you bro but he was a 18D and he just finished the Paramedic course at my local college. He is currently serving as a medic on a WPPS contract overseas. Not all 18D are Paramedics, just like not everyone who graduates from the SOCM course are NREMT-P certed. As far as your claim that there are 40 18D's your dumb. Every A team has a 18D(medic), 18C(engineer), 18B(weapons), 18E(intel) etc etc. You civil affairs dudes aren't even SOCOM so check your facts before you try to correct those of us who are.

 

[ZootownMedic]

All USSOCOM medics are required to maintain their NREMT-P

Also untrue. Lets take a look at SOCOM unitis. Special Forces, MARSOC, Naval Spec War, 75th Ranger Regiment, SOAR, Air Force SOF.

The guys that were in 3rd Ranger battalion with me were all 68W's who attended and graduated SOCM as well as Ranger School. Some of them could have been paramedics as well but it was not a requirement at all. 18D's are not trained to the Medic standard. They do not spend time learning how to read ECG's or learning PALS or geriatrics....why would they? My buddy that just graduated from P school got his internship signed off by USSOCOM at Ft. Bragg. He didn't have to do his 500 hrs and could immediately sit for his NREMT-P exam. PJ's are the only unit I know of that are ALL trained to the NREMT-P level. I would be surprised if Civil affairs medics even went to SOCM....in fact ive never heard of them going.

 

[RocketMedic]

On the active side, CA medics were standard 68ws pulled from the bsb..

 

[Afflixion]

If you have a asi of w4 or w2 you are paramedic certified which ranger medics have If fmq'ed.

But we can pretend I'm not at Bragg currently assigned to a USSOCOM unit. And still argue this fact. I have plenty of contacts in sf, soar and rangers for example I personally know the regimental senior medic in the 75th and the 160th.

 

[ZootownMedic]

If you have a asi of w4 or w2 you are paramedic certified which ranger medics have If fmq'ed.

But we can pretend I'm not at Bragg currently assigned to a USSOCOM unit. And still argue this fact. I have plenty of contacts in sf, soar and rangers for example I personally know the regimental senior medic in the 75th and the 160th.

Bro, I understand...I wasn't trying to belittle you. I just know from the 18D's I have talked to, and with the one being my best friend, they werent NREMT-P certed. Its weird because I think that maybe they should be, if only so when they get into the civilian world they can transition to a related field without having to do a Paramedic course. At least my buddy didnt have to a do a 500 internship like everyone else. Thats one pretty sweet advantage to being a SOCOM medic in itself since NREMT recognizes Ft. Bragg....

 

[Nerotik]

I have a question. I am trying to get into PMC/PSC work and was told the best way to get your foot in the door without SF training or a friend on the inside is to become a medic in addition to my 30+ years of shooting experience. Even though I have been shooting all my life trained by my dad a former cop/marksman and gunsmith, I should also take some combat Handgun, Mid rang rifle, defensive shotgun and precision rifle classes so that I have those skills certified on paper. What I was wondering however is exactly which path to take in the EMT field? My options are EMT - basic, Intermediate and advanced as well as Paramedic but that is more of a college course and comes with math, reading and writing classes attached to it as well. So would EMT Advanced combined with multiple certifications for combat and home/self defense handgun, fighting rifle and 1000m+ precision rifle certifications make me a competitive applicant for PMC/PSC work here and over sea's? By the way I'm 33, yes I have been shooting since I could walk. Everything from MAC-10's to M-14's to Barrett .50 cal's, I have killed an Elk at 867 yards cross canyon shot in wind and rain, been studying martial arts of various styles since I was 7 and I have been shot at a few times and I didn't freeze up or freak out. Anyway I digress, best EMT rating to have to get a PMC/PSC job? or what combinations of certs other than paramedic which will take too long to get, I want to get to work ASAP.

 

[airborne2chairborne]

a couple of corrections from just this page (not going to go back and read the whole thing)
1: there are A LOT more than 40 18Ds. Each ODA has at least 1 18D, if you think there are only 40 ODAs in the entire army you're watching too much Rambo.
2: ALL ranger medics go through the W1 course, and they have been required to do so since at least 2005 (since that is when the army switched the medic mos from 91W to 68W)
http://www.soc.mil/75th Ranger Regiment/Perm_Party_RMED_Application_06.pdf
3: If by "medics pulled from the BSB" for CA you mean for assignment just for deployment, then yes that happens a lot. However active CA (which is an SOF btw) does have their own medics who go through the Civil Affairs Medical Sergeant course, for which W1 is a prerequisite
https://www.atrrs.army.mil/atrrscc/prerequisites.aspx?fy=2013&sch=331&crs=300-F20&phase=&clsflag=
4: 18Ds are most certainly trained to the paramedic level and they receive their paramedic cert

Now to the original question- CLS is not a very good course, having taught it to at least a 1,000 students (if you include recert classes) as a medic I can honestly tell you that I would consider that little 5 day course a HUGE success if everyone of my students could put on a tourniquet, treat a pneumothorax, secure an airway, and know what shock looks like at the end of it. CLS can do certain procedures an EMT cannot (needle decompression for example), however CLS is not taught everything that an EMT is. Mainly because we do not have patients with diabetes/CHF/COPD/cardiac issues/seizure issues/stroke issues/or other issues that old/chronically sick/unhealthy people have. Their patients are all in the military. They're all relatively young and relatively healthy, and for the most part their entire demographic of medical emergencies are trauma based. Also CLS are not meant to work alone, their purpose is to either assist their medic when available (like BLS assists ALS), or keep a patient alive until the medic can get to them (like BLS would with a patient while waiting for ALS). It would be great to send all of my CLS (meaning the entire platoon) to an EMT-B course so they could learn more, however I can honestly say that the only things I've ever needed a CLS to do was secure an airway, treat pneumothorax, and stop bleeding. Everything else is either something that can wait 1-2 minutes for me, or something that can't be treated with the gear a military medic carries anyway.

As far as the list smokemedic listed-
CLS has no civilian cert, and gets only 5 days of training
an EMT has a civilian cert
a 68W is certified as an EMT and has additional 68W training
Comparing paramedic to 68W- 68W can do a few things a paramedic cant (depending on unit, every unit has a different provider and therefore a different scope, but just going off of my old unit vs paramedic national scope) and their protocol is most likely where ITLS will be in 5 years, however they are not trained on the medical emergency side that paramedics are.
ALL special operations medics go through the W1 course, which includes paramedic school, then follow on training.

 

[Ace 227]

I have a question. I am trying to get into PMC/PSC work and was told the best way to get your foot in the door without SF training or a friend on the inside is to become a medic in addition to my 30+ years of shooting experience. Even though I have been shooting all my life trained by my dad a former cop/marksman and gunsmith, I should also take some combat Handgun, Mid rang rifle, defensive shotgun and precision rifle classes so that I have those skills certified on paper. What I was wondering however is exactly which path to take in the EMT field? My options are EMT - basic, Intermediate and advanced as well as Paramedic but that is more of a college course and comes with math, reading and writing classes attached to it as well. So would EMT Advanced combined with multiple certifications for combat and home/self defense handgun, fighting rifle and 1000m+ precision rifle certifications make me a competitive applicant for PMC/PSC work here and over sea's? By the way I'm 33, yes I have been shooting since I could walk. Everything from MAC-10's to M-14's to Barrett .50 cal's, I have killed an Elk at 867 yards cross canyon shot in wind and rain, been studying martial arts of various styles since I was 7 and I have been shot at a few times and I didn't freeze up or freak out. Anyway I digress, best EMT rating to have to get a PMC/PSC job? or what combinations of certs other than paramedic which will take too long to get, I want to get to work ASAP.

All I can say is, without military experience, good luck. Companies have so many vets to choose from there isn't much of a need for anyone else.

 

[airborne2chairborne]

and before anyone gets up in arms, no I'm not saying 68W is on the same level as paramedic when comparing overall ability or education.

If you compared a paramedic with equal training time as a medic from a good unit, I would say they are on par when it comes to trauma patients. There is a reason why civilian trauma medicine is based off of military trauma medicine. However that's where it ends. 68Ws have absolutely no training with medical based emergencies or the treatment of pediatrics past the EMT-B level.

 

[RocketMedic]

I have a question. I am trying to get into PMC/PSC work and was told the best way to get your foot in the door without SF training or a friend on the inside is to become a medic in addition to my 30+ years of shooting experience. Even though I have been shooting all my life trained by my dad a former cop/marksman and gunsmith, I should also take some combat Handgun, Mid rang rifle, defensive shotgun and precision rifle classes so that I have those skills certified on paper. What I was wondering however is exactly which path to take in the EMT field? My options are EMT - basic, Intermediate and advanced as well as Paramedic but that is more of a college course and comes with math, reading and writing classes attached to it as well. So would EMT Advanced combined with multiple certifications for combat and home/self defense handgun, fighting rifle and 1000m+ precision rifle certifications make me a competitive applicant for PMC/PSC work here and over sea's? By the way I'm 33, yes I have been shooting since I could walk. Everything from MAC-10's to M-14's to Barrett .50 cal's, I have killed an Elk at 867 yards cross canyon shot in wind and rain, been studying martial arts of various styles since I was 7 and I have been shot at a few times and I didn't freeze up or freak out. Anyway I digress, best EMT rating to have to get a PMC/PSC job? or what combinations of certs other than paramedic which will take too long to get, I want to get to work ASAP.

I would politely tell you that very few people care about your supposed hyperproficency with firearms, that you would not be a good paramedic if you only try it for the reasons stated, and that you honestly do not sound like a viable medic or security guard.

Seriously, is this real?

Close ambush is under how many meters, what do you do? Far ambush?
EOF=?

 

[Handsome Robb]

and before anyone gets up in arms, no I'm not saying 68W is on the same level as paramedic when comparing overall ability or education.

If you compared a paramedic with equal training time as a medic from a good unit, I would say they are on par when it comes to trauma patients. There is a reason why civilian trauma medicine is based off of military trauma medicine. However that's where it ends. 68Ws have absolutely no training with medical based emergencies or the treatment of pediatrics past the EMT-B level.

All I'll ask is why did the Army decide to make NREMT-P a requirement for all 68WF3s after the NG 1/168th DUSTOFF unit showed up and ran clinical circles around the other DUSTOFF units?

 

[Nerotik]

I would politely tell you that very few people care about your supposed hyperproficency with firearms, that you would not be a good paramedic if you only try it for the reasons stated, and that you honestly do not sound like a viable medic or security guard.

Seriously, is this real?

Close ambush is under how many meters, what do you do? Far ambush?
EOF=?

I don't care what people (who are not considering me for employment) think about my firearm proficiency as there is nothing "supposed" about it. I by no means am the best in the world or even talented enough for a professional exhibition or shooting competition, I will leave those tasks to professional target shooters. However much like Dale Earnhardt Jr. who grew up around NASCAR I have had firearms of all types in my life, all my life, and as such they are a natural tool for me to use and I adapt to new ones quickly and easily. You make the assumption that what very few and basic reasons I mention for being interested in becoming a Medic are not only a reflection of my character but also show a lack of drive, talent or ability to become a Medic and/or Security Guard. I am truly amazed you can glean so much from so little especially when that little was in the form of questions, some rhetorical, some jokes and all meant to gather information not to make a statement of any kind. As for your little quiz: a near ambush is under 200 meters but most people consider it to be when both the friendly forces and Op-for are close enough swap grenades. The best action to take when hit by a near ambush is put your face in the dirt and get your body as low low low as possible, send a few rounds back at them in an effort to suppress their fire then find a way to slink out of the line of fire and behind some good cover, regroup your unit and counter attack before the Op-for has a chance to press their advantage and use any other surprises they may have waiting for you. You also say that you can tell I would not be a viable Security Guard or Medic based on the reasons I gave. The only problem is, i didn't really give any reasons and if I had they would have mentioned how my dads fiance was ripped from his arms one day while they were at the beach and she was pummeled by waves causing massive internal hemorrhaging. Or how my grandmother came to live with us when I was 17 because her dementia was so bad, one morning I noticed her sitting in her recliner with her head back, not breathing. I spent 20 minutes doing CPR and dealing with the idiot on 911 who didn't understand I needed both hands. Grandma died in my arms anyway. or when my cousin almost drowned if I hadn't grabbed him and pulled him out of the surf in time. There have been so many close calls in my life that I really want the knowledge to be able to help more if the need arises and to help others who can't help themselves. This road I choose to take as a career for my life not because of some crap you read but because I want to make a difference and spare someone else from having to watch their grandmothers shirt get ripped open and those self adhesive pads be stuck to her in an attempt to get heart function back but with no success. I also want to spare anyone from having to watch their little sister who was only 22, stand up and her eyes roll back in her head then a small seizure until she collapses. She had some type of rare birth defect with her neuro pathways similar to Moya Moya but her brain ruptured and she died, 2nd youngest of 4 kids and mother of two young girls. So when I leave a very short post and most of it is me just asking questions, maybe making a few statements and trying to slowly get to know some people please use some self control and try to reserve judgement until you actually get to know me.
Thanks,
Nerotik

 

[Handsome Robb]

Wow.

I'm sorry you had a rough run but attacking longstanding, respected members isn't going to get you anywhere.

By the way, that idiot on the other end of the 911 call was trying to help. Also, those "adhesive pads" were the only chance your grandmother had at converting her heart into a perfusing rhythm.

Show a little respect and don't start throwing names and what not around until you actually understand how EMS and the 911 system works.

This isn't a **** measuring contest of "I've seen more than you so I have a better reason to want to do this."

You really want to make a difference and learn about medicine? Work in a 911 system. Contracting isn't going to fulfill what you've described wanting as far as "saving lives" and being able to help people and "make a difference".

 

[Nerotik]

Wow.

I'm sorry you had a rough run but attacking longstanding, respected members isn't going to get you anywhere.

By the way, that idiot on the other end of the 911 call was trying to help. Also, those "adhesive pads" were the only chance your grandmother had at converting her heart into a perfusing rhythm.

Show a little respect and don't start throwing names and what not around until you actually understand how EMS and the 911 system works.

This isn't a **** measuring contest of "I've seen more than you so I have a better reason to want to do this."

You really want to make a difference and learn about medicine? Work in a 911 system. Contracting isn't going to fulfill what you've described wanting as far as "saving lives" and being able to help people and "make a difference".

I wasn't attacking anyone, he made a somewhat snyde remark and I responded with truthful, factual information in an effort to express my point better. Yes, I know what "The adhesive pads" are for I am just too damned tired to type it all out and I understand 911 operators are just trying to do a job but this one was truly an idiot. Trying to engage me in conversation which had absolutely no bearing on the emergency at hand, she was complaining about her mouse pad for Christs sake and every time I tried to set the phone down on the hardwood floor (I assume she heard the clunk sound it made) she would yell repeatedly until I picked up the phone again and asked her 'what?' then she would tell me help is on the way again and go back to peeling her mouse pad or w/e

 

[RocketMedic]

All I'll ask is why did the Army decide to make NREMT-P a requirement for all 68WF3s after the NG 1/168th DUSTOFF unit showed up and ran clinical circles around the other DUSTOFF units?

The 68W scope is increasing, and the military is a business. Recruiting RNs to go onto birds to run IV pumps, vents, etc is prohibitively expensive, while simply uptraining EMTs would still lack some critical core knowledge. Paramedic school does patch that hole, and is a low-cost recruiting measure to boot when it gives soldiers and NCOs something of real value to their careers. "Reenlist for six for paramedic school" happens every day.

Doing this job is a privilege and something a lot of people strive for, and a 68W who wants it will go through a lot to get it.

 

[RocketMedic]

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/EIB/EIB_Related_Battle_Drills/battle-drill-4-react-to-a.shtml
And thats all Ill say about that.

 

[Luno]

OMG, it has been a long time since I read Gecko45... Still just as funny.