College and Paramedic School?

[yankeefan213]

I am a 16 y/o high school junior in NJ. I took the EMT-B course in Paramus over the summer, and am now volunteering at my local ambulance corps and loving every minute of it. I am also a very good student (GPA ~ 97/100, 2220 SAT, currently enrolled in 3 AP classes) and have a (remote) chance at playing baseball in college.

I hope to go to medical school, and feel that the paramedic course would offer me several advantages including patient contact/experience, practical knowledge that would be useful in medical school etc, and also a job after college were I to not get into medical school.

What I'd like to know is this: Is it feasable (has anyone done it?) to be enrolled full-time as a student in college and take a paramedic course at a community college on the side? Any insight/perspective would be appreciated.

 

[usafmedic45]

patient contact/experience

It won't make you stand out on medical school applications. Probably about 1/3 of applicants have some form of EMS credential and of the several folks I know who sit on medical school admissions committees, unless you have YEARS (10+ was the figure given by two of these folks) of experience in EMS it's viewed in much the same way as if you put down "President of the Pre-Med Club; volunteered at the local free clinic and organized other volunteers too!".

The general consensus seemed to be that while working in EMS demonstrates a high tolerance for the BS associated with dealing with patients, their families and nurses it implies very little in regards to what it means to be a physician which is what they are looking for in pre-med clinical "experience". One of them went so far as to say that she and her colleagues can pretty much pick out who the Type-A personalities with short attention spans among the applicants are simply by looking to see if they list EMS experience as an extracurricular.

practical knowledge that would be useful in medical school

As several of my medical student friends who were medics before matriculation have told me, the "practical knowledge" is not a big help. Veneficus can give you more insight on this one since he is actually a medical student.

Is it feasable (has anyone done it?) to be enrolled full-time as a student in college and take a paramedic course at a community college on the side?

I wouldn't recommend it. Do you really want to risk tanking your GPA simply for your paramedic credential?

also a job after college were I to not get into medical school

This is why if you're smart, you'll major in something other than chemistry, biology, physics or biochemistry (the traditional premed majors). Pick a bachelors degree in something with a job attached to it.

Also keep in mind that most people who go into college as "pre-med majors" do not wind up applying for whatever reason.

 

[Icenine]

You hit a hot button there ^ the med schools think you should be working on a degree with the intention of not getting in as well.

If you do some looking you'll find there are a lot of highly respected schools that actually frown upon science degrees. Johns Hopkins for one. See the link below under "Baccalaureate Diploma"

http://www.studentdoc.com/medical-school-requirements.html

That is only one of many times I've seen similar suggestions as of late.

 

[yankeefan213]

For some reason the site won't let me quote. But in response to usafmedic45:

I agree its not worth tanking the GPA over it I was just wondering if it were practical to try, so let me phrase this another way: What is the weekly time commitment for paramedic school (class, studying, practicals etc)?

Or are there programs that accelerate and can be finished in a summer/semester?

 

[TransportJockey]

For some reason the site won't let me quote. But in response to usafmedic45:

I agree its not worth tanking the GPA over it I was just wondering if it were practical to try, so let me phrase this another way: What is the weekly time commitment for paramedic school (class, studying, practicals etc)?

Or are there programs that accelerate and can be finished in a summer/semester?

Traditional class is 2-3 semesters, at least 8 hours of classroom work a week, plus 12 hours or more of clinical time a week.

 

[yankeefan213]

Traditional class is 2-3 semesters, at least 8 hours of classroom work a week, plus 12 hours or more of clinical time a week.

Including gen ed? I have been checking out some programs' gen ed requirements and I think I could place out with my AP credits that I will hopefully get when I test in May.

 

[TransportJockey]

Including gen ed? I have been checking out some programs' gen ed requirements and I think I could place out with my AP credits that I will hopefully get when I test in May.

Not including the pre reqs (at my program in NM those were A&P, Adv Trauma, Drug Cal, and Pharmacology, which I doubt your AP credits would cover)

 

[yankeefan213]

Not including the pre reqs (at my program in NM those were A&P, Adv Trauma, Drug Cal, and Pharmacology, which I doubt your AP credits would cover)

Agreed. I was referring to some school's math/english requirements.

I have seen references to "medic mills" on this site. What are these exactly (web link would be helpful)? Are they doable over a summer?

 

[usafmedic45]

Including gen ed? I have been checking out some programs' gen ed requirements and I think I could place out with my AP credits that I will hopefully get when I test in May.

Put it this way....if you're going to be in a decent program, you're going to eat up whatever time you would have beyond your normal coursework (non-paramedic courses) and social life. In other words, say goodbye to sleep, a girlfriend and all of the other things that make life in college bearable if you want to try to get your EMT-P while in college for something else.

I have seen references to "medic mills" on this site. What are these exactly (web link would be helpful)? Are they doable over a summer?

Think of them as the Carribean medical schools of the EMS world: Yes they will get you qualified as an EMT-P but a lot of places will not consider you for employment if you come out of there so you're putting yourself at something of a disadvantage before you're even out the door.

They also bite you in the butt because you come out undertrained and ill equipped to function clinically in most cases unless you have a LOT of previous medical experience and education to rely upon.

 

[yankeefan213]

Sorry again having issues with the quote button. @usafmedic45:

I can definately see your point regarding time issues.

As far as the medic mills, how specifically do they leave you behind? Don't all programs have to teach to the same curriculum (DOT/NREMT)? I guess you're talking about the difference between some no-name community college and Harvard, as it were?

Also, could you provide a list/links of medic mills? I'm just curious.

Finally, are medic mills doable in a single summer? I understand what you're saying about putting you at a disadvantage, but if that's the only way this could work for me it might be worth a try. At least its something.

 

[usafmedic45]

As far as the medic mills, how specifically do they leave you behind? Don't all programs have to teach to the same curriculum (DOT/NREMT)?

Nope. Medic mills are simply those programs that either compress the program so much that they have to cut corners (leave stuff out) or they are simply money making operations where "you pay, you pass".

BTW, the minimum curriculum on paper (the DOT standard) is barely sufficient for someone who is going to be working autonomously. It's actually laughable how minimal the education standards are in this profession currently.

I guess you're talking about the difference between some no-name community college and Harvard, as it were?

Not at all.

Also, could you provide a list/links of medic mills? I'm just curious.

I don't have one and even if I did, I would not give it to you.

Finally, are medic mills doable in a single summer?

Depends on the program. Any program worth going to and paying a lot of money to attend? No.

I understand what you're saying about putting you at a disadvantage, but if that's the only way this could work for me it might be worth a try.

Why is it so important to you to have your paramedic credential? Ask yourself: "Do I want to be a physician or do I want to be a paramedic?" If you really feel the need to have both, then ask yourself why you really want the paramedic credential given that it will not help you achieve the other goal you have. Nothing says you can't get your paramedic credential AFTER medical school.

Most importantly, are you really willing to endanger patients simply to get another bullet on your AMCAS? Getting turned lose with insufficient education and the poor clinical oversight (especially in concert with the average maturity level of an 18-20 year old; BTW, this is coming from someone who was a first responder at 15) is asking for some patient to pay dearly.

At least its something.

Sometimes nothing is better than something.

 

[Melclin]

Why is it so important to you to have your paramedic credential? Ask yourself: "Do I want to be a physician or do I want to be a paramedic?" If you really feel the need to have both, then ask yourself why you really want the paramedic credential given that it will not help you achieve the other goal you have. Nothing says you can't get your paramedic credential AFTER medical school.

+1 on this.

The answer, I suspect, is that you love getting hands on and you wanna do something that will allow you to be hands on earlier than medical school.

Pretty much everything is better than high school. Even the good parts of high school suck compared to university. Then, assuming you actually like your career path, working s**ts all over university. I'm deducing from your love of the EMT-B thing that you get a lot of satisfaction doing something real and something that has actual meaning as opposed to the arse load of abstract learning you do in highschool and, to an extent, at university. Although that might just be me projecting (I even enjoyed stacking shelves at Safeway because it had an actual effect, however small). If I'm right about that, then you are potentially sacrificing long term satisfaction (medical school, MD) for short term potential 'gains' as a paramedic. You will regret that. Try and have the maturity to work towards the higher goal and take solice in the fact that you will not have to wait until you are a doctor for more of that real world fun/learning that has actual meaning. Firstly you can continue to get it from your volly EMT studd and secondly its pretty much only gets better after high school.

Usafmedic is right about the patch factories. I just finished a paramedic bachelors degree and it doesn't feel like I have enough knowledge. That's because we have a system that teaches you enough to show you how much you don't know. For the most part, America doesn't, and that is dangerous.

So work hard at school, and keep the balance in your life that you seem to have already. Without that balance you'll burn out, regardless of whether or not you chose to be a doctor or a paramedic. If you try to chose both, you might end up with neither.

 

[usafmedic45]

The answer, I suspect, is that you love getting hands on and you wanna do something that will allow you to be hands on earlier than medical school.

But there are so many things better to spend your time being "hands on" with than patients while at university.

 

[Melclin]

But there are so many things better to spend your time being "hands on" with than patients while at university.

You cant seriously be suggesting that swimming in a sea of experimental drunken women is better than cleaning up an 89 year old dementia patient with gastro can you?

You're just so jaded and burnt out mate.

 

[rescue99]

I am a 16 y/o high school junior in NJ. I took the EMT-B course in Paramus over the summer, and am now volunteering at my local ambulance corps and loving every minute of it. I am also a very good student (GPA ~ 97/100, 2220 SAT, currently enrolled in 3 AP classes) and have a (remote) chance at playing baseball in college.

I hope to go to medical school, and feel that the paramedic course would offer me several advantages including patient contact/experience, practical knowledge that would be useful in medical school etc, and also a job after college were I to not get into medical school.

What I'd like to know is this: Is it feasable (has anyone done it?) to be enrolled full-time as a student in college and take a paramedic course at a community college on the side? Any insight/perspective would be appreciated.

I have several friends who were Medics prior to medical school. Not one of them regrets his/her decision. In fact, each of them agree, it was a good choice. Not suprising, they are all DO's. I agree however, that going to Medic class and carrying a full load would be a difficult job. Ask Lifeguard for Life...he's done it.

As a community college instructor, there are pre-med, pre-med grads, grad students and nursing students in every semester. I believe this semester there are 4 in my class alone. One full time grad student cracked me up when he said he was taking the EMT-B course so he could go to all of the U of M games for free . Smart, ambitious and money-wise!

 

[usafmedic45]

Not suprising, they are all DO's.

Which begs the question: How were their grades? Also how long were they medics before going to medical school?

 

[TransportJockey]

I have several friends who were Medics prior to medical school. Not one of them regrets his/her decision. In fact, each of them agree, it was a good choice. Not suprising, they are all DO's. I agree however, that going to Medic class and carrying a full load would be a difficult job. Ask Lifeguard for Life...he's done it.

As a community college instructor, there are pre-med, pre-med grads, grad students and nursing students in every semester. I believe this semester there are 4 in my class alone. One full time grad student cracked me up when he said he was taking the EMT-B course so he could go to all of the U of M games for free . Smart, ambitious and money-wise!

What do you mean it's not surprising they're all DOs? I'm just curious...

 

[Markhk]

What do you mean it's not surprising they're all DOs? I'm just curious...

In my limited experience during the application process, Osteopathic DO medical schools (versus allopathic MD medical schools) seem to value students slightly more when they have prior healthcare backgrounds.

To give you an example, the standard AMCAS allopathic medical school application requires a personal statement and gives you a section for the 10 extracurricular/jobs/interests/awards & honors you have.

In contrast, the AACOMAS osteropathic medical school application specifically has a section for "work experience", where you can, as an EMT/paramedic, elaborate on the quality of your experience as a healthcare provider. (The application also then has a separate extracurriculars, volunteer work, awards, honors)

 

[Markhk]

What I'd like to know is this: Is it feasable (has anyone done it?) to be enrolled full-time as a student in college and take a paramedic course at a community college on the side? Any insight/perspective would be appreciated.

I think it's wonderful that you have the interest and determination to pursue school while increasing your breadth of prehospital knowledge. Just keep in mind that applying to medical school is not a simple affair. You WILL study HARD for the MCAT, and you will be slammed with the science courseload in college for Gen Bio, Upper Div Bio (Genetics, Biochemistry, Cell/Molecular Bio), Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Math (Calculus without using a graphing calculator). It is VERY tough to say to yourself, "I know I want to get hands on experience, but I need to do these classes first"...when we're in our young college days we want to be saving lives constantly...but sacrificing the EMS side in order to study hard is one of the things you might have to do while in college.

One thing to consider if you really want to become a paramedic is to do as much as you can as an EMT in college (get that experience really working on your BLS skills in a campus EMS service, volunteer squad, etc until you are a BLS stud), finish all the premed requirements (classes and MCAT), graduate from college then take a year off to go to medic school while you're applying to med school.

Good luck, I really do hope you are able to pursue your dreams.

 

[rescue99]

What do you mean it's not surprising they're all DOs? I'm just curious...

Nothing really other than DO's are more whole patient oriented.