Balancing Work & Home

[cb3ofus]

I know this probably isnt feasible - but you could tell him to join the field then you can both will be in the same field and will have a person to "talk" to.

That's what hubby and I have done.


Just remember whatever the problem patience, understanding, and acknowledgement of eachothers feelings will be quite helpful.

Carie

 

[Smoke14]

EMS is largely a transient profession populated by people who begin really wanting to make a difference and then learn that it's not about making a difference, it's about doing the job and getting away intact. For most, it's a stepping stone to another profession with more stability and less assaults, like Fire. It's part of the path and not a path in itself because it is painful work to keep doing.

The immense turnover in the profession IMHO, is largely the result of burnout. That turnover makes it difficult for enough traction to be gained to actually legitimize EMS as a profession; too many people leave before the job really gets done.

Professional shrinks DO NOT understand. You're lucky to have a partner who does! Sharing parts of your life -- the parts that challenge you -- with someone important to you is what BUILDS relationships. We are taught it is a deterrent.

What do you think?

I am certainly glad there was no internet when I started working as a medic or I would not have enjoyed this profession for thirty three years.

 

[usafmedic45]

I am certainly glad there was no internet when I started working as a medic or I would not have enjoyed this profession for thirty three years.

You know what, I still enjoy it despite the fact that the Internet was around when I started. I just don't take as negative of a view of the support available to us as some do. I may not do it full time anymore but the only clinical exposure I get nowadays is when I take a mission. EMS has been pretty much the only continuously present aspect of my life from my teenage years through today.

 

[firetender]

Been there, done that. Have you? I see little difference.

Once again...little difference. I suspect everyone until proven otherwise.

Nowadays, it's more "Be polite, be professional and have a plan to neutralize every person you meet should they become a threat".

Just so it's clear, I acknowledge that the majority of medics subscribe to this way of being/acting in the field. It is the Warrior. I absolutely recognize its validity, and, yes, the way medicine is set up, "War" is an appropriate metaphor

It's not any different than teaching EMS personnel to not assume the scene is "safe", except that the use of force is an acceptable option to the military and LEOs.

If "It's not any different" and we truly are in danger from others as part of the job, then we should be issued guns to protect ourselves.

There's a vast difference between being quiet so you don't draw fire and "silence" in the sense of "You can't talk about this crap".

Not really, because the fire you are avoiding are the negative judgments around you because you are perceived as weak because you talk about stuff in a way that reflects their emotional impact.

Yeah, some of us actually learn to not let it affect us.

You're right on; it is a learned behavior, but what you're neglecting is that each one of us "learns" how it works best for us to NOT be affected.

What I'm doing here is to make a little more room for those in the field today, like I was back in the day, who actually derive satisfaction out of the experiences, both light and shadow; those who find the EMS experience is a window into a lot of other "worlds" if you will.

I figure about 20% of the medics in the field would like to have more outlets to discuss such stuff. Perhaps many more would appreciate a culture shift so that when they hit a wall they could turn to each other for support.

The anticipation of derision, denial, minimization and out and out mocking of our peers keeps many medics from saying even the little bit that it would take to help them "clear" their experience. Stuff like that accumulates. I'm just trying to expand the outlet a little.

You'd be amazed how much a change in shifts will have that effect. That was the major difference. I'm working more hours at my new job, but I'm on the same schedule as my fiancee. Don't read more into this than is really there.

Just seeking clarity.

Delivering compassionate care and having "internal changes" because of it are two separate things. I can absolutely not care less about a patient and they still think I'm a great provider. Welcome to where having some acting ability comes in handy in the clinical setting.

My minor point is that there's room for other approaches. I was a Flesh Mechanic, and it worked very well. I learned other ways to go as well.

Not wrong, but not right for everyone. If you look at it as a job and not a lifestyle, "calling" or "mission from God", then you find it much easier to walk away and not get involved emotionally with your patients.

My point is no one teaches us that emotions pass; and surprisingly quickly. It is resistance to them that often causes the backlogs; not for everyone, as you say, but not everybody is wired like you. There's an art to feeling and then letting go. Some people might like to explore that more.

So is what you're smoking just straight pot or is it laced with something else? Because seriously....this hippy dippy "we're all tied together and can pick up on others chakras" crap should have died out long ago.

You're, Um, very...I don't think I like that. Wait a minute, I'll show you let me get my Medical Marijuana Card...Hold on, just a minute...I know I saw it somewhere around here, um..., Damn! what was I looking for?

Maybe we're not all having a big soak in the volcanic hot spring with naked chicks with unshaven armpits or doing peyote and "sweating out" our problems in an Indian sweat lodge,

Now I get it, we just have different "been there, done that's"!

but I've never had a shortage of my peers to talk to about what we've experienced. More often than not, I'm the one on the receiving end because I was the least bothered by cases. After people would vent it usually was followed with a "Hey man....thanks for that. If you need to vent, you can talk to me."

...and I'll lay 20 bucks on the fact that YOU attract the people in EMS who need you most; who need what you have to say in the way you say it. Even the way you listen. Do you NOT see others with different styles? Do they NOT deserve support as well?

I never felt like that. Have never heard anyone else who was cut out for the field (meaning that they didn't come in with completely outlandish expectations) say that either. It sounds like you just have a set of beliefs to defend and if we don't go all peace, love and Mother Earth with our brother and sister providers, we're all screwed. I'm not buying it.

Nor do I. But, once again, we're not all wired like you.

Everyone is different. Just because you had to adopt this weird set of beliefs to cope, doesn't mean that anyone else has to either.

Nice....let's create a false dichotomy in the kid's head. So when do you break out the Kool-aid?

Like I said...everyone experiences it differently. Stop assuming that people won't be able to share with their peers. I've seen Marines cry, console and let their feelings out as readily as you're advocating after tough calls. I'm pretty sure if people who are brainwashed into thinking they are the most badass killing machines on the planet, then it's not going to be a hard time for a bunch of comparatively candy *** EMS providers to do the same thing.

It's all about making room for others with different approaches, different orientations.

...and this is different from the stress in almost every other aspect of life? Sorry to play the Darwinist card, but if you don't get tough, you get eaten.

Kind of an interesting fallback position, but unfortunately, it does not mirror my experience, nor the experience of a lot of my peers. I got more eaten by the toughness because that toughness did not soften when I was home. My experience of myself toughened and became narrow, and NO, it didn't feel good.

So while still in the field, I started to do things differently. It didn't mean I saved more lives -- on-scene I was a competent technician regardless -- but after-the-fact, I simply enjoyed being me a bit more, and had easier access to the "civilian" parts of me that others in my "other" life, could embrace.

Welcome to natural selection applied to a medical profession. We just tend to weed out our people after they are in the field, instead of during the training/selection process like the military and every other profession. THAT is what separates us from other professions.

There are a lot of people who could have contributed a whole lot more and helped move the profession so much further if their experiences as human beings had been honored as nicely as your position is. They did not leave because they were weak. Many left because their strengths were not appreciated.

Done. (to "Please, show me I'm wrong!") [/QUOTE

Un-

Bingo. Although, I would prefer a psychiatrist....someone with prescribing authority and a basic education in medical science.


As opposed to some "healing arts" guru? I've been to a lot of therapists (probably over 10 or 15) and I have never encountered one who has not been able to empathize. Then again, I don't expect them to understand, but just having someone who is non-judgmental and willing to let me vent is what I am looking for.


Then I'm the luckiest guy alive (besides the fact that I have the most awesome fiancee ever) because out of the probably 100+ people I've been partnered with over the years, I can count two that were unwilling to listen.

You've not only gotten what you need, but I also hear you went out to get the kinds of support to which you were best suited. I hope you can see, I want EVERYBODY in EMS -- including those with different styles of coping -- wherever possible, to get what they need.

Fianlly something that we agree on.

It's worth repeating because it makes BOTH our points: "Sharing parts of your life -- the parts that challenge you -- with someone important to you is what BUILDS relationships."

Then you either had some :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty teachers or you misunderstood the message.



I don't think you really want to hear that. (to " What do YOU think?"

Well, usafmedic, I trust you actually DID tell me what you think. I really DO appreciate the time you took to honestly respond to my post.

At the very least, this kind of stuff is worthy of dialogue, I hope you see it that way as well.

Love the time you've been given!

 

[usafmedic45]

If "It's not any different" and we truly are in danger from others as part of the job, then we should be issued guns to protect ourselves.

I think you missed the point I was trying to get at. The point is that we are taught not to assume that we are safe. The presence or absence of weapons is a moot point.

Not really, because the fire you are avoiding are the negative judgments around you because you are perceived as weak because you talk about stuff in a way that reflects their emotional impact.

You must have worked with an entirely different generation or just with a real bunch of jerks.

You're right on; it is a learned behavior, but what you're neglecting is that each one of us "learns" how it works best for us to NOT be affected.

And that's a problem?

What I'm doing here is to make a little more room for those in the field today, like I was back in the day, who actually derive satisfaction out of the experiences, both light and shadow; those who find the EMS experience is a window into a lot of other "worlds" if you will.

I derive satistfaction, but it seems like you have a very pessimistic (and this is coming from a pessimist so take that as you will) view of the coping abilities and social support available in this field.

I figure about 20% of the medics in the field would like to have more outlets to discuss such stuff. Perhaps many more would appreciate a culture shift so that when they hit a wall they could turn to each other for support.

I think that "shift" has occurred. You retired quite a while back if I recall. Perhaps that's where you're missing out on what seems to be a much more supportive environment. I'm pretty sure if it hadn't been shifted, I probably would not be sitting here talking to you.

The anticipation of derision, denial, minimization and out and out mocking of our peers keeps many medics from saying even the little bit that it would take to help them "clear" their experience. Stuff like that accumulates. I'm just trying to expand the outlet a little.

Like I said, I don't deny these sorts of things happen, but it is certainly not the most common response anymore. Having worked in various capacities for a dozen companies in several states, I have noticed that EMS is a very tightly knit group when something negatively affects one of our own.

My minor point is that there's room for other approaches. I was a Flesh Mechanic, and it worked very well. I learned other ways to go as well.

Point taken.

My point is no one teaches us that emotions pass; and surprisingly quickly. It is resistance to them that often causes the backlogs; not for everyone, as you say, but not everybody is wired like you. There's an art to feeling and then letting go. Some people might like to explore that more.

It's odd because all of my "front line" medical care training involved exactly that sort of thing. Both EMS and the military made me sit through classes on how to deal with the crap we see.

...and I'll lay 20 bucks on the fact that YOU attract the people in EMS who need you most; who need what you have to say in the way you say it. Even the way you listen. Do you NOT see others with different styles? Do they NOT deserve support as well?

I'm not sure I exactly follow but in my experience there are three broad groups:
-Those who are physically "torn up" right away by what they see (either histrionic or lashing out aggressively)
-Those who are not bothered by what they see in 99.99% of cases (myself as an example)
-Those who quietly stew and only talk about it if asked (and sometimes choose not to).

Offering to listen doesn't exclude anyone. There are several members of this forum that I've had call me in the middle of the night after bad calls because they needed someone to talk to. I've never met most of them in person, but they are still my brothers and sisters and if they need to talk, I'm there. If I can't help them, I offer to help them find someone who can.

You've not only gotten what you need, but I also hear you went out to get the kinds of support to which you were best suited. I hope you can see, I want EVERYBODY in EMS -- including those with different styles of coping -- wherever possible, to get what they need.

OK. I just was concerned by the way you were describing therapists and such.

I really DO appreciate the time you took to honestly respond to my post.

Not a problem. You know me, I'm always game for a spirited discussion. If I ever wind up on Maui, we will have to meet up and have dinner. I may not agree with everything you say, but I think your heart is genuinely in the right place.

 

[Seaglass]

For some reason, I missed that you were of the feminine gender, and that changes everything! Odds are, you really DO embrace that you are now in a Man's World and must, at least, be their emotional equal. That's usually what it takes and you're too new to the field to see beyond that. Personally, I'm sorry you have to downgrade so much to be one of the boys!

That's a shame because you're wired a little differently than us. You are wired to nurture and protect life while men are oriented to battle death.

HUGE DIFFERENCE and that is about genetics.

If there are other Gals in your service, start cultivating relationships with them. You know how to pick out who might be open. You know how to start girl-talk and then alert them to the fact something is up that's bugging you. Once you get their attention and make them not feel like they have to fall back on bravado, like the guys, you'll have your outlet...

But my point is, you (all of you) really have to work just a bit harder to get the safe space necessary to really be honest about your experience as a human being.

I think you can do it.

While I can't speak for the OP, there's a lot of this that comes across as misinformed. I'd advise you to remember that being biologically female does not necessarily mean reacting in typically feminine ways.

Being human is, in part, about being wired to protect and nurture life, as well as to battle death. We're all human, regardless of chromosomes. While women seem more likely to prefer the former over the latter, that's not always the case, especially in this field. A lot of us are much happier cutting you out of a car than taking care of you afterward. A lot of us are excellent flesh mechanics, but freeze up the moment the patient gets emotional.

A lot has changed indeed since you were active. I hear horror stories from some of the women who joined decades ago about how they wouldn't befriend one another, for fear of being marginalized. Their male counterparts tell me about times when they were afraid to call a chaplain for fear of being stigmatized. Neither seems to be much of a problem in my system anymore.

That being said, I have found that patients and new coworkers tend to assume I'm a safe person to talk to, just because I'm female. Fortunately, they're right, in my case.

Also generally agreeing with usafmedic45.

 

[firetender]

Enjoying the banter!

You must have worked with an entirely different generation or just with a real bunch of jerks...

...but it seems like you have a very pessimistic (and this is coming from a pessimist so take that as you will) view of the coping abilities and social support available in this field...

I think that "shift" has occurred. You retired quite a while back if I recall. Perhaps that's where you're missing out on what seems to be a much more supportive environment. I'm pretty sure if it hadn't been shifted, I probably would not be sitting here talking to you.

I've been sort of "taking the pulse" of this stuff, unscientifically, on this site since 2005. I'm seeing that there is a chink in the armor of protection that characterized my generation, but it is still NOT part of the culture.

Now and again someone here will write in a way that reflects the true emotional impact of what they experienced in the field. Usually, it catches them off-guard and they bring it here with the subtext: "Help me out here, willya Guys?". Often, they start with a technical challenge, and it morphs into a plea for help.

...and people step in, but often, for every post of support there are about seven reflecting on or criticizing technique, and then it's soon dropped. No, usafmedic45, this support you talk about lives in pockets, probably amongst individuals with history and trust together -- therefore, not necessarily available to the majority flow of transient workers -- and has not been adopted by the larger culture of the paramedic.

As supporting material, I offer this: Heroes and Lies: Storytelling Tactics among Paramedics The pdf itself is kinda scholarly, but here's a quick tour:

among ambulance personnel storytelling stands as one of the most developed aspects of the occupational culture. It clearly influences how emergency workers cope with the psychological trauma associated with their work; how they interact with the environment and the public; and how they interact with each other, management and other closely related agencies...In many of their stories, the patients are undeserving, the bystanders are unpredictable, other emergency responders ...are horribly incompetent, supervisors are obsessed with procedure, managers think of nothing but profit, dispatchers are woefully inarticulate, hospital personnel are dangerous, and the only ones able to bring a modicum of sanity to the bizarre situations they encounter are the medics themselves...the general feeling among medics is that CISD makes them even more subject to the company’s apparatus of surveillance, a surveillance that they frequently try to avoid. Finally, some medics fear that colleagues will consider them "weak" or "unable" to cut it if they avail themselves of this service too often.

Now the focus of the article is the stories we tell each other and how we tell them, and not necessarily about the kinds and amounts of support we offer each other, but, really, isn't this the PRIMARY way we have of relating to each other? Where's the part about, "And what kicked my *** about that call was..."?

All I'm saying is we can begin moving more toward actual, honest and direct support of each other, just like I'm seeing begin to develop here.

Not a problem. You know me, I'm always game for a spirited discussion. If I ever wind up on Maui, we will have to meet up and have dinner. I may not agree with everything you say, but I think your heart is genuinely in the right place.

In spite of your hard-*** exterior, I see your willingness to really listen and re-evaluate your positions accordingly. When an FNG pisses you off, you rail, but if he/she has the guts to stand up to you or reveals themselves to you as a human being, you'll shift. When I think of the people here who are honestly supportive, I include you.

...and thanks for the offer, I could use a free meal!

 

[usafmedic45]

When I think of the people here who are honestly supportive, I include you.

Thank you for the complement. That actually means a lot.

In spite of your hard-*** exterior, I see your willingness to really listen and re-evaluate your positions accordingly. When an FNG pisses you off, you rail, but if he/she has the guts to stand up to you or reveals themselves to you as a human being, you'll shift.

Pretty much. It's not that they have to stand up to me, I expect them to stand up for themselves. There are few things that piss me off quite so quickly as someone who doesn't have the willingness to stick their neck out for what they believe in or in order to learn. It's one of the inherent things that a lot of people don't like to admit about the learning process: you are emotionally and professionally vulnerable while doing so. Even when you've got a good professional standing and are normally the teacher, you are still vulnerable. Potentially more so, because there is "more" for someone to lose in that circumstance. It's like that song says "A man's got to stand for something or he'll fall for anything".

...and thanks for the offer, I could use a free meal!

It'll be a while, unless you know a conference willing to sponsor me out there. LOL