Jury reaches split verdict in Burks trial: Watch the dash cam video

bstone said:
No one is saying that the person clearly wasn't as injured as made out to be. That is plainly obvious. It's first 2 minutes in which the officer was begged over and over to let a human being of then-unknown medical status into the ER but utterly refused. This is the concerning part.

The part where the injured man gets out and attacks the LEO shows that he wasn't all that injured, but take that out of the equation for a minute and just concentrate on the LEOs actions for the first 2 minutes. Do you think they were appropriate? I believe absolutely not.
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Amen!
I don't think this situation is black and white (no pun intended) where the woman driver is all in the right and the cop is all in the wrong, nor is the cop totally blameless and the woman in the wrong. There were errors in judgement made on both sides here.

The cop is supposed to be a professional and should have attempted to diffuse the situation instead of pouring gasoline on the flames. Every action he took ramped it up another notch when it would have been very easy to calm things down with a simple "Ma'am, I will call the ER and have someone come out here to help your husband, while we wait for them to get here, I need to see some ID, registration etc."

Sure there are people out there who will lie, cheat and steal to get into a place like a hospital. Sure there are those who will fake an illness to get out of a traffic ticket. But does that mean we all should be treated as though we are a threat to national security when our only 'crime' was a minor traffic infraction? I don't think so!
 
SC Bird said:
:unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure:

You seem to be pretty stuck on the race card.

-Matt
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A white woman in a Lexus would have never received the same treatment.
 
bstone said:
A white woman in a Lexus would have never received the same treatment.
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Careful...you're bordering on libel/slander.
 
BossyCow said:
There were errors in judgement made on both sides here.
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The first being made by the driver who failed to stop when required.

BossyCow said:
But does that mean we all should be treated as though we are a threat to national security when our only 'crime' was a minor traffic infraction? I don't think so!
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And yet, routine stops for "minor traffic" infractions have resulted in the arrest of some of our most violent and dangerous criminals. While admittedly rare, it does happen. How is the officer supposed to know until he identifies the occupants of the vehicle?
 
ffemt8978 said:
Careful...you're bordering on libel/slander.
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In what way? Slander is an untruthful verbal accusation. It would be me saying "Paul is a child molester" when indeed this is not the case. Libel is an untruthful written or broadcast accusation.

I believe the case to be correct and I am not the first on this thread to have stated such.
 
ffemt8978 said:
The first being made by the driver who failed to stop when required.


And yet, routine stops for "minor traffic" infractions have resulted in the arrest of some of our most violent and dangerous criminals. While admittedly rare, it does happen. How is the officer supposed to know until he identifies the occupants of the vehicle?
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But when your criminal gets out and begs for medical attention at te entrance of an ER, you have a moral, ethical and duty-bound obligation to put aside the minor traffic offense and attend to any potential medical emergency. Given it was bogus in this case, but the officer did not show he would have helped despite two minutes of desperate pleas.
 
It's okay, Some of us don't think the word 'liberal' is an insult. :P

I even have a t-shirt that reads Jesus was a long haired, sandle wearing, liberal, rabble rouser. Yes I lived the 60's, I don't have real clear memories of the decade but I've got pictures that can prove I was there!
 
bstone said:
In what way? Slander is an untruthful verbal accusation. It would be me saying "Paul is a child molester" when indeed this is not the case. Libel is an untruthful written or broadcast accusation.

I believe the case to be correct and I am not the first on this thread to have stated such.
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Libel also covers written words on a website. For you to say that that officer would have treated a person differently based upon race is an unprovable assumption on your part.

While I don't believe you were specifically referring to the officer involved, and thus avoided the libel portion, you did appear to be very close to the line. It was just a friendly reminder to all.
 
ffemt8978 said:
Libel also covers written words on a website. For you to say that that officer would have treated a person differently based upon race is an unprovable assumption on your part.

While I don't believe you were specifically referring to the officer involved, and thus avoided the libel portion, you did appear to be very close to the line. It was just a friendly reminder to all.
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It has to be derogatory. I have to say that whatever person is doing an evil act, like being a child molester, beating the elderly, etc. Saying that I believe someone to be a racist is clearly covered under the 1st amendment. If you would like me to stop as a policy of this website then that is different.
 
bstone said:
It has to be derogatory. I have to say that whatever person is doing an evil act, like being a child molester, beating the elderly, etc. Saying that I believe someone to be a racist is clearly covered under the 1st amendment. If you would like me to stop as a policy of this website then that is different.
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Taken to PM...

To everyone else here, please be sure to state that your opinions are just that...your opinions and not facts.
 
Bstone, the man rightly was convicted of felony assault and the woman should be convicted of resisting and felony fleeing. You've taken a very ignorant position. As soon as she failed to stop, she was committing a felony, in most areas, by fleeing - even at low speed. The officer was acting within the regulations and guidelines of every leo dept I'm familiar with. Race had nothing to do with it. The crime, possibility of unknown threats, and her aggression clearly dictated his response as well as ramped up the index of suspicion. A white couple, asian couple, purple couple would have rightfully deserved the same outcome for the same actions.
 
SC Bird said:
I'm not a LEO, but I am pretty sure that a confrontational/excited party exiting a vehicle during a traffic stop after refusing to yield supercedes the passenger at the time when we are talking about safety. You never know what's coming out of the car....unfortunately there are many fallen officers who are evidence of that.

-Matt
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Amen Matt I agree on this completely from LEO and Medic point of view. Scene safety is always #1.
 
BossyCow said:
What tells the biggest story to me, is when the woman tells the officer, just get someone from the ER to see to my husband and I will stay here with you. The cop's response is not to contact the hospital to arrange for help for the possibly injured pt, but to insist on seeing her registration and driver's license. The woman at that point has been compliant and in my opinion, more in control of herself and her behaviors than the officer. She did not push past the officer, but merely attempted to impress upon the officer the importance of getting help for her husband. The officer has the ability to contact the hospital and does so later in the incident, so it would have been simple to get the man taken care of.

I know that Police work is dangerous and I have many friends who serve as LEOs. But, that doesn't mean that every cop in every situation is right no matter what he does to gain what he feels is necessary control. This was a traffic citation, turn signal and exhaust, not speeding, not weaving in and out of traffic, not reckless driving, but what we used to refer to as chippy violations.
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I have tried really hard to avoid getting involved with this discussion however I feel as if I just have to now due to all the comments on race, he deserved it, etc. First the racecard is bull:censored::censored::censored::censored:. Do you honestly think the ER is going to send someone out with a wheelchair or gurney? I have had the hospitals call EMS because of something that happened in their parking lot only to transport them the 100 or so feet, yards to the ER entrance. How do you know he had the ability? Do you know how long it takes dispatch to take care of a situation third party wise with no guarantee of action? Personally if someone exits their car before I do, my pistol is out and ready and the way I gain control of the scene changes rapidly. I also have responded on so many :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing bs calls of "oh my chest hurts" on people with suspended DLs, DUIs, no insurance that were told they were going to jail. Just the other night I ran for a guy was taking his 1 month "pregnant" (unconfirmed) wife to the hospital with abdominal pain and neither spok English but he could say that when they read him his rights for no DL, no insurance, and no proof of registration. I had a diabetic lead me into a high speed pursuit nearly striking two additional officers out on traffic stops and take me into a local city across state lines into Arkansas, only to surrender to their PD on the front steps bc "I was having a diabetic emergency and did not want to stop". I think the LEO acted with regard to his safety. To quote Sean Connery's character Jim Malone in The Untouchables, "You just fulfilled the first rule of law enforcement: make sure when your shift is over you go home alive. Here endeth the lesson".
 
So. IL Medic said:
Bstone, the man rightly was convicted of felony assault and the woman should be convicted of resisting and felony fleeing. You've taken a very ignorant position. As soon as she failed to stop, she was committing a felony, in most areas, by fleeing - even at low speed. The officer was acting within the regulations and guidelines of every leo dept I'm familiar with. Race had nothing to do with it. The crime, possibility of unknown threats, and her aggression clearly dictated his response as well as ramped up the index of suspicion. A white couple, asian couple, purple couple would have rightfully deserved the same outcome for the same actions.
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We will agree to disagree. My own experiences in law enforcement give me a certain insight into how a LEO acts. I will thank you for not insulting me by saying I am ignorant when indeed I have more insight then you may realize.
 
I stand by my 'opinion' that neither side in this was completely right or completely wrong. There were errors in judgement on both sides. I also repeat my belief that because some people are :censored: doesn't mean that we all deserve to be treated as we might be. As an American, I believe in the protection of the civil liberties of all our citizens, including those who enforce the laws. Due Process Rules!
 
VentMedic said:
So the LEOs that died in the line of duty while making a traffic stop probably deserved it if your summation of traffic stops and cops are correct. Those LEOs might have been trying to give out a $100 ticket instead of $50. That definitely would be reason to kill a cop if a $50 ticket warrants getting a cane strike on the head which also can be a fatal blow.

This LEO probably should have been more aggressive the moment she got out of the van to get control of the scene before it escalated to the point it did. It should not have gone on for 2 minutes. She wrote the circumstances when she did not pull over and again when she exited the van quickly.
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Im sure im going to heat some people up, but this cop got what he was asking for. And I think LEO's know there is a risk in their chosen field but they still have the duty to control the scene instead of escalate it. The man would not be so upset in the first place had the "officer" not strong armed his wife pleading for help. Its things like these and the other thread about the cop arresting the fire captain that make me lose respect for law enforcement in general. Police are given to much power and to little oversight. Im glad that youtube and online videos is slowly starting to change this.
 
daedalus said:
Im sure im going to heat some people up, but this cop got what he was asking for. And I think LEO's know there is a risk in their chosen field but they still have the duty to control the scene instead of escalate it. The man would not be so upset in the first place had the "officer" not strong armed his wife pleading for help. Its things like these and the other thread about the cop arresting the fire captain that make me lose respect for law enforcement in general. Police are given to much power and to little oversight. Im glad that youtube and online videos is slowly starting to change this.
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I hope you think of your very comment right here and about this when you are getting the :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing :censored::censored::censored::censored: beat out of you on a scene or in a unit and PD is the only one thats there for you. See how much you appreciate and respect them then...
 
daedalus said:
Im sure im going to heat some people up, but this cop got what he was asking for. And I think LEO's know there is a risk in their chosen field but they still have the duty to control the scene instead of escalate it. The man would not be so upset in the first place had the "officer" not strong armed his wife pleading for help. Its things like these and the other thread about the cop arresting the fire captain that make me lose respect for law enforcement in general. Police are given to much power and to little oversight. Im glad that youtube and online videos is slowly starting to change this.
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If you work in EMS, you probably wear a uniform. There will be calls where it may look like you are being forceful or appear to be even harming someone. Even starting an IV with a co-worker holding the patient's arm can look like "strong - arming" to bystanders or family members. Yes, people will be judging and scutinizing your actions also. They may not understand your intentions and are only looking at a uniform hovering over their loved one. If it is so easy for you to say that harming someone in uniform is justified, it will be even easier for those who have criminal ways to think the same. That LEO came very close to not going back to his family that day. I am sure that was not his intent nor did he want harm to come to anyone around him.
 
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