EMS addiction

I feel that at least my coworkers, the majority who probably came through college paid for by trust funds and lived upper middle class. Would not have a constructive view of addictions/abuse recovery.

Quite naive really. I have never known addictions/abuse to discriminate amongst its victims. Have seen all walks of life exeperience abuse/addictions, just some hide it better or have better support (enablers) which cover it for a while.

Where do you work that all your coworkers are trust fund babies AND in EMS???
 
Statistically, medical professions have a high rate of substance abuse. The easier access the practitioner has to controlled substances, the easier it is to abuse them. A medic so inclined has easy access to his/her patient's drugs. Alcohol, as a legal intoxicant is right up there in its overuse.

This elephant in the living room is something most do not wish to talk about. Still, most quietly witness it. What would you say? 10%? 20%? of medics go on occasional benders of one form or another? Some don't come back.

The thrill of the hunt. That's hard to duplicate off duty. Some form of sedation keeps you mellow 'til you need to call on the adrenaline again when back in the saddle. Or maybe, "Hey! I need to not think or be responsible for a while!" (Pick your excuse. How many have you heard, how many have you offered?)

Whackers, Adrenaline Junkies, we've got a million names for them, but there's the other kind, too. The ones like you and me who one day get real tired of feeling the pain of others because sometimes it sets in, or maybe just get kinda sick of losing so damn many in a row, or maybe wants to deaden the desire to strangle that partner!

So we act off it and find solace in some substance. But it could be actions, or ways of being as well; like being abusive to a partner, cold to the pain of loved ones, or take charge in everything we do. It's all about continuing the rush; that's the story at its core.

We're not supposed to have doubts, but the field, by its very nature, generates them. Sometimes, they get overwhelming.

The part that's missing is the part where we build a culture that will allow those affected with the opportunity to express their root conflicts honestly and without the fear of derision by their peers.

Connection is the best high of all!
 
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kinda of topic, but before I worked as an EMT I didnt even know what dip was, now it gets me trough a 48 staying up and running calls non-stop.

That's very on-topic, actually, even if the OP wanted to hear about more interesting drugs.

Anyone else use smokeless tobacco? For that matter, anyone smoke (consider switching to smokeless, if quitting's not on the table)?.
 
Had sex with 3 different girls in 2 nights

You can get fired for that!!!?? :blush::P

In a conference that I went to I was told that there is a huge amount of Methamphetamine abuse on Oil Rigs. Now Oil Rigs do have medics..........

kinda of topic, but before I worked as an EMT I didnt even know what dip was, now it gets me trough a 48 staying up and running calls non-stop.

I started chewing through hockey. I've done it for almost 5 years and I'm trying desperately to quit. I chew something called Snus, it's a Swedish Tobacco. It'll be tough, but I'll be able to make it. Plus they don't let us chew on the bus here.

That's very on-topic, actually, even if the OP wanted to hear about more interesting drugs.

Anyone else use smokeless tobacco? For that matter, anyone smoke (consider switching to smokeless, if quitting's not on the table)?.

I've had friends that have tried that and they said it's harder to quit smokeless tobacco then it is to quit cigarettes.
 
How about: "well I took out 800$ after we got paid, picked up an 8 ball and hit it hard on monday and tuesday. Had sex with 3 different girls in 2 nights, just came in to work on zero sleep and took a new clean uniform from supply, cause ive been living in my truck for the past 2 weeks. But hey I did go to the gym last night. (hypothetical example)

OMG dude stay out of Mr.Browns Journal.
PS: last time I checked in my area an eight ball of solid stuff was street value $120. What happened to the rest of the $800
 
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You price compare? I just buy wholesale, much easier...

As for the rest of the 800, how do you think the girls entered the equation?
 
How about: "well I took out 800$ after we got paid, picked up an 8 ball and hit it hard on monday and tuesday. Had sex with 3 different girls in 2 nights, just came in to work on zero sleep and took a new clean uniform from supply, cause ive been living in my truck for the past 2 weeks. But hey I did go to the gym last night. (hypothetical example)
well..... take out the "picking up an 8 ball", the rest of it sounds like a pretty good time. In fact, I used to date a girl who kept calling me homeless because i would go from work to her place and back to work, keeping spare clothes in my car. in fact, a single guys dream can be 3 girls in 2 nights (even better if 2 of them are at once), and topping it off with a decent workout. where is the problem.
Does anyone on here have a supportive addictions program in their workplace?
we do. my hospital has an EAP (employee assistant program) to help with addictions. But you need to go to them, they can't catch you and then you claim you have a problem.

I know people who are addicted to cigarettes, caffeine, as well as adrenaline junkies. I also know people who will go out on an alcohol filled bender for a weekend after a bad weekend. I am sure there are others who are addicted to drugs, sex (infidelity is sometimes a problem), exercising, and food. I am sure there are others, but I know teachers who go out, business people, and government workers who all did the same thing (I should know, we were alternating who was going to buy the next round at the bar).

addiction spans all social classes, from poverty to super rich, from east to west. whether it be a trust fund or a welfare person, you have addicts. I know plenty of college students that are alcoholics or drug addicts; but I know plenty that are "functioning" alcoholics, where are different than many of the addicts that seem to be a drain on society (used to date one of those too).

If you know someone who has a problem, say something. but if they don't want to get help, and it doesn't affect their job performance or yours, then unfortunately your hands are tied. and unfortunately, it's like that in jobs everywhere.
 
well..... take out the "picking up an 8 ball", the rest of it sounds like a pretty good time. In fact, I used to date a girl who kept calling me homeless because i would go from work to her place and back to work, keeping spare clothes in my car. in fact, a single guys dream can be 3 girls in 2 nights (even better if 2 of them are at once), and topping it off with a decent workout. where is the problem.
we do. my hospital has an EAP (employee assistant program) to help with addictions. But you need to go to them, they can't catch you and then you claim you have a problem.

I know people who are addicted to cigarettes, caffeine, as well as adrenaline junkies. I also know people who will go out on an alcohol filled bender for a weekend after a bad weekend. I am sure there are others who are addicted to drugs, sex (infidelity is sometimes a problem), exercising, and food. I am sure there are others, but I know teachers who go out, business people, and government workers who all did the same thing (I should know, we were alternating who was going to buy the next round at the bar).

addiction spans all social classes, from poverty to super rich, from east to west. whether it be a trust fund or a welfare person, you have addicts. I know plenty of college students that are alcoholics or drug addicts; but I know plenty that are "functioning" alcoholics, where are different than many of the addicts that seem to be a drain on society (used to date one of those too).

If you know someone who has a problem, say something. but if they don't want to get help, and it doesn't affect their job performance or yours, then unfortunately your hands are tied. and unfortunately, it's like that in jobs everywhere.

I'm not sure what you label as an "alcoholic" but a bunch of college kids that have fun for a couple years are not alcoholics.
Also, caffeine is an addiction most of us have. From coffee to Coca Cola.

I label alcoholics who ALWAYS drink. They loose their job, house, and family due to it. Not that they are alcoholics because they go home and have a glass of wine (which is healthy for the heart) at night.
 
I'm not sure what you label as an "alcoholic" but a bunch of college kids that have fun for a couple years are not alcoholics.
Also, caffeine is an addiction most of us have. From coffee to Coca Cola.

I label alcoholics who ALWAYS drink. They loose their job, house, and family due to it. Not that they are alcoholics because they go home and have a glass of wine (which is healthy for the heart) at night.

Ahhh, but those few years of having "fun" is that not sowing the seeds for future addictions or am I off base because every single one of them can quit any time they want, plus they do not have houses, careers or families to lose yet (the majority). :)
 
Statistically, medical professions have a high rate of substance abuse. The easier access the practitioner has to controlled substances, the easier it is to abuse them. A medic so inclined has easy access to his/her patient's drugs. Alcohol, as a legal intoxicant is right up there in its overuse.

This elephant in the living room is something most do not wish to talk about. Still, most quietly witness it. What would you say? 10%? 20%? of medics go on occasional benders of one form or another? Some don't come back.

The thrill of the hunt. That's hard to duplicate off duty. Some form of sedation keeps you mellow 'til you need to call on the adrenaline again when back in the saddle. Or maybe, "Hey! I need to not think or be responsible for a while!" (Pick your excuse. How many have you heard, how many have you offered?)

Whackers, Adrenaline Junkies, we've got a million names for them, but there's the other kind, too. The ones like you and me who one day get real tired of feeling the pain of others because sometimes it sets in, or maybe just get kinda sick of losing so damn many in a row, or maybe wants to deaden the desire to strangle that partner!

So we act off it and find solace in some substance. But it could be actions, or ways of being as well; like being abusive to a partner, cold to the pain of loved ones, or take charge in everything we do. It's all about continuing the rush; that's the story at its core.

We're not supposed to have doubts, but the field, by its very nature, generates them. Sometimes, they get overwhelming.

The part that's missing is the part where we build a culture that will allow those affected with the opportunity to express their root conflicts honestly and without the fear of derision by their peers.

Connection is the best high of all!

Good post. thanks!
 
I wish our service would do a random drug test.. I know several people that wouldn't be employed here anymore.

But nothing is mentioned in our policies.

Thank you for basically proving my point. You WISH your service would do a random drug test so that people you work with get terminated.

How about, you wish your department had a comprehensive addictions/ PTSD counseling program to help your coworkers currently battling addiction!

I know a medic who usually rails two 80s every night or morning to get to sleep. This girl has recurring flashback nightmares almost every night of a specific call.

Stephanie, you WISH your department could implement drug testing and get her fired? Your attitude is exactly what I am talking about.
 
I'm not sure what you label as an "alcoholic" but a bunch of college kids that have fun for a couple years are not alcoholics.
Also, caffeine is an addiction most of us have. From coffee to Coca Cola.
you don't think college students can be alcoholics? wow, that's like saying a person isn't an addict if they only use drugs on the weekends. You need to open your eyes, or actually spend time talking to and addition counselor on a college campus. and contrary to your belief, caffeine is a drug, and people can become addicted (ever get headaches because you skipped your morning coffee?).
I label alcoholics who ALWAYS drink. They loose their job, house, and family due to it. Not that they are alcoholics because they go home and have a glass of wine (which is healthy for the heart) at night.
You have obviously never heard of a functioning alcoholic. these are the people who have a job, family, and house, and still have a huge dependence on alcohol or drugs. These are where most of your white collar and college addicts tend to fall, and how they keep it hidden from everyone else.

I don't wish addicts would get fired, but I would rather not have to work with them in public safety if they aren't interested in getting help for their problem.
 
Just because someone isn't an alcoholic doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

My company has an employee assistance program, and like the person above, you have to go to them first. If you get caught or in trouble and try to hide it you aren't eligible. I know of at least one person who was fired for trying to hide a DUI arrest, and there have been a couple others over the last few years who have had alcohol or drug (pain killers) problems. I know one of them isn't working for us anymore, but that was because the EAP will only help you so much, if you keep relapsing the company can eventually say enough is enough.

Technically no one is supposed to use tobacco products of any kind while on duty, but it really isn't enforced too well, which is a shame because it looks horrible when the employees are standing next to the ambulance smoking, ugh.

If you suspect your partner is under the influence, or unable to work for some reason you are to report them to the supervisor immediately. If you know your partner is under the influence and don't turn them in you can get in a lot of trouble too. I know there is also a help line you can call and report someone anonymously, but I think that is for less immediate issues. Like someone is drinking too much, but isn't drunk on duty.

We don't have random drug testing that I know of. Everyone is tested for hire, and then also if you get into any sort of accident or sustain an injury. I would like to see random testing, but I have no idea if it will ever happen.
 
Thank you for basically proving my point. You WISH your service would do a random drug test so that people you work with get terminated.

It is not uncommon for medical or public safety professionals to have high demands for those participating in their respective field. There is also an overwhelming illusion that these practicioners of not normal humans, but some divine entity or larger than life hero figure.

While some conceal from view and others fall from grace, I can tell you I have seen a higher rate of substance abuse among medical students than I have EMS professionals.

adderall is the most common drug of choice, being cheaper and easier to get than cocaine. (a distant second) THC is also very popular in the earlier years where the textbook takes up most of the time.

Caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol, barely register on most radars despite the fact a large number almost chain smoke, or have theraputic caffeine levels at any given time and probably high levels of physical dependence. Not a day goes by without somebody having a drinking party and while not everyone goes to every one, (multiple class levels, etc) some do frequent more than their fair share it appears.

There are also other destructive behaviors used to deal with the stress. Gambling, prostitution, or other forms of risk taking.

It is commonly said "it is better to die than fail," as after a couple of years in addition to the social consequences, economically, short of hitting the lottery a person is pretty much ruined forever. At $250,000 borrowed, the monthly loan payment is $1400 on average for 20 years, which cannot be reduced or forgiven by bankruptcy. You can see where there is a great deal of stress even before a person starts worrying about what happens to patients. Many of those addictions and habits will carry over after school as a majority of people admitted do graduate.

"Your doctor will see you now... "

How about, you wish your department had a comprehensive addictions/ PTSD counseling program to help your coworkers currently battling addiction!

Nope, I am old school.

PTSD is a disease of the 20th and 21st century. (please spare me the propaganda , I studied and actively stay involved with, paleopathology, the history of disease in human populations)

It is a physiologic response to constant stressors which people had coping mechanisms for throughout history. In the modern world, those mechanisms have been removed or are broken by sociological norms. For example, during the industrial age, it wasn't uncommon for injured workers to drink themselves into a stupor, and wake up and go to the factory the next day hungover or still under the influence. If the person was hurt or damaged something, their position was forfeit and they lost everything until they found another employer. There was no workman's comp, partial/full disability. Survival forced people to pick themselves up.

Likewise, in the middle ages, death was so frequent that people actually distanced themselves from their children emotionally. However, such quality was made up for by quantity. Currently in parts of Africa and Asia, people still have 8+ offspring, expecting several to perish prior to reproduction. Doing so is impossible to do and maintain a western middleclass life.

So to pontificate, you cannot hope the world will be kind to you and your loved ones, you have to be proactive in making sure you can survive and maintain the life you want. (Don't think I mean build and defend a compound, I don't) But it is not the responsibility of others to teach people about death and loss. Ignoring the responsibility of being aware of what really goes on in the world or insulating oneself from the brutality of it does not make one "deserving" or "worthy" of treatment.

One thing military people seem to be keenly aware of, "beware of the old soldier/sailor" for (s)he has not fallen from wounds nor the stressors of the profession. They are tough.


And the market favors termination. (i don't agree, but it is true)

For every fire/EMS job there are usually hundreds if not thousands of qualified applicants. Employers simply do not have to spend money on retaining employees. Couple that with the average time anyone spends at a single EMS job and that means employers are spending money to keep a person 5 years tops.


I know a medic who usually rails two 80s every night or morning to get to sleep. This girl has recurring flashback nightmares almost every night of a specific call.

She will master her stress, or it will master her. if the latter, i am sorry to say she will pay an fearful price. To quote something more artistic:

"Some will fall and some will live, will you standup and take your chance?"

Not everyone can be a firefighter, an EMT, a soldier, a doctor, an accountant, a fisherman, a lawyer, or anything else. In any job or profession, many will try, some will succeed. It is the soley the decision of the individual what price they will pay before they decide the job/lifestyle is not worth it. Rehab and therapy just resets a person before another breakdown.

Like any disease, it is cured at the source, not the symptom. If eating McDs gives you a heart attack, the solution is not to eat it. If EMS is causing you to breakdown, the solution is to not do EMS.

Stephanie, you WISH your department could implement drug testing and get her fired? Your attitude is exactly what I am talking about.


I'd like to think my opinion and attitude has a bit of depth to it not just a recitation of "don't do drugs or we don't want you as a hero". Not everyone will agree.
 
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I know a medic who usually rails two 80s every night or morning to get to sleep. This girl has recurring flashback nightmares almost every night of a specific call.

That's pretty intense.

Career change might improve the quality of life and increase her life expectancy.
 
"Some will fall and some will live, will you standup and take your chance?"

Not everyone can be a firefighter, an EMT, a soldier, a doctor, an accountant, a fisherman, a lawyer, or anything else. In any job or profession, many will try, some will succeed. It is soley the decision of the individual what price they will pay before they decide the job/lifestyle is not worth it. Rehab and therapy just resets a person before another breakdown.

If anyone wants to do a word count for him (I know he only has time to write, not to count!) and finds Veneficus has hit 1,000,000 words on this forum, I'll award Vene my NEXT book! (He knows this is said with Aloha!)

I'm glad this all has come up. Vene gave a terrific overview of aspects of the medical profession that we all know about but rarely admit and it dips into a bit of historical perspective as well.

He does, however, contradict himself in that, on one hand he says the way people coped was to just cope, implying a weakness in us today, and he ends up saying if you can't cope, get out. My position is that most of us are doing exactly that; coping in the best ways we know how. For some of us, we use extreme methods.

In my experience, EMS was and is a culture, not unlike the Cop culture. We, like them, have a "Code of Silence" when it comes to speaking of our peers' behavior.

We observe things on calls that we would never admit are done to an outsider, but because we really know the stresses and challenges of the job, we "allow".

By nature, the position that we put ourselves in is the essence of risk-taking. The stakes are life and death; the ultimate stakes. We also put our sanity on the line because we are willingly placing ourselves into the position of not only witnessing, but participating in the pain of others. We have chosen to be WITH the suffering.

(As an aside, in a study in the late 1980's it was found the highest rate of suicide in the professional world was amongst dentists. It was traced back to their unrelenting relationship with pain.)

"Normal" people don't do what we choose to do. Most can't! Look around you and what do you see? Probably a balance just slightly more extreme than society as a whole. I'm going to make a broad observation. Tell me what you think.

Over the course of my career, I'd say I encountered two personality extremes in, not only EMS but allopathic medicine as a whole; "Sensitives" and "Flesh Mechanics".

Sensitives (S) are people like myself who have a tendency to look deeper and more philisophically and even spiritually at the field and the work we do. They are bent a bit more toward connection than technician. They often follow feelings rather than protocol. Experiencing their feelings, although rarely spoken about to others, is not so scary to them. That's what they think at first, anyway, but often having that crack open lets floodwaters in in which they drown. For some, EMS is a world that is quite rich in its challenges. They are the ones who got into the field as a heart-driven decision and have found life in it, even though at times its excruciatingly painful.

Flesh Mechanics (FM) are on the heartless side, but not necessarily in a negative way. They are our Warriors, the ones who, consistent with the approach of allopathy as a whole, "battle" death. Their focus is on the job in front of them and performance to the best of their ability. Even though many may have entered the field led by their hearts, either by inclination or driven by the constant overstimulation they morph into hardened shells, highly competent but, let's just say, a little hampered in their ability to connect with other human beings; on or off-duty.

I'm going to peg each of these extremes as about 20% of the population of medics, so we're talking about 40% of our ranks live on the farther ends of the 60% norms who either move freely between the two states, consider the work a job and neither question nor deny their experience and just do it or are fulfilling their function as part of a broader life plan of which their work is more incidental than pivotal to their image of themselves.

And that's probably an important side-observation; the extremes of both groups would be, most likely, those who identify themselves with what they do. EMS attracts more of "those types" of people than mainstream "jobs".

I believe that it is within that 40% of personalities that the highest incidence of substance abuse occurs. For some it is a continuation of the risk-taking behavior. For others it reflects a continuing, non-physical exploration, for others diversion from their own extremes and for many in both categories, a means to just stop all the damn internal chatter! The reasons for abuse are no different, they just have slightly different driving forces.

Since this could turn into a really fruitful conversation, I'm going to plant this seed and see what you think before I play around with other aspects of the culture; would you say, for starters that my observation that 40% of us would fall into an "at-risk" category for extremes of abuse, whether it be substance or otherwise, is accurate?
 
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I'll do the word count if I can get a free copy too, haha.
 
If anyone wants to do a word count for him (I know he only has time to write, not to count!) and finds Veneficus has hit 1,000,000 words on this forum, I'll award Vene my NEXT book! (He knows this is said with Aloha!)

I didn't reach the post maximum :) This is the closest to writing a book I will ever get probably, I ask your indulgence. :)

He does, however, contradict himself in that, on one hand he says the way people coped was to just cope, implying a weakness in us today, and he ends up saying if you can't cope, get out. My position is that most of us are doing exactly that; coping in the best ways we know how. For some of us, we use extreme methods.

I don't see a contradiction in what I said. People find ways to cope, sometimes they can, sometimes methods that work for some break down others.

There is weakness, or rather insulation from stress and when modern people are faced with it (sometimes for the first time ever when they are in EMS and certainly on a regular basis) the old coping mechanisms are no longer socially acceptable, (which could cause you to get fired), because of the biological and economic impact on Western society.

I think it was best said in a John wayne movie:

"He mostly drunk part of the time and partly drunk most of the time, but if you had 100 guys like him you could walk into hell and put out the fire."

if you tried to cope that way today, if you were caught you would be fired. If you decide to partake in certain substances today (which we actively search for) you will be fired.

Today's "therapy" doesn't help anymore than those "old ways." Just like in history, only the removal of the injurious stimulous will remove the stressor.

I agree with your position in all aspects. (I just don't have your skill of saying more with less)
 
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(I just don't have your skill of saying more with less)

Just want to comment that I NEVER have to struggle reading your posts, most are very insightful, some are brilliant and others offer a very valuable view into a broader perspective that many of us can benefit from. Or does "you never put me to sleep" say it better?
 
you don't think college students can be alcoholics? wow, that's like saying a person isn't an addict if they only use drugs on the weekends. You need to open your eyes, or actually spend time talking to and addition counselor on a college campus. and contrary to your belief, caffeine is a drug, and people can become addicted (ever get headaches because you skipped your morning coffee?).
QUOTE]

:blink: Man, if our campus had one of those... I would have done so much better in math freshman year. :P
 
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