What would happen if the NREMT required a degree?

[CFal]

False. 2 in 2 outdoes not apply in life threats.

FURTHER..how may small or for that matter large FDs regularly make grabs? How many successful RIT operations do you hear about? The insistence on interior firefighting inside modern day (since the late 60s to early 70s) construction is why we continue to kill firefighters in the same manner at a rate of 100 a year.

The exemption is pretty narrow. Most times you don't know if there is anybody inside or not, hence the need for the primary search.

OSHA regulations recognize deviations to regulations in an emergency operation where
immediate action is necessary to save a life. For fire department employers, initial attack
operations must be organized to ensure that adequate personnel are at the emergency scene
prior to any interior attack at a structural fire. If initial attack personnel find a
known
life-
hazard situation where immediate action could prevent the loss of life, deviation from the
two-in/two-out standard may be permitted, as an exception to the fire department
’
s
organizational plan.
However, such deviations from the regulations must be
exceptions
and not defacto standard
practices. In fact, OSHA may still issue
“
de minimis
”
citations for such deviations from the
standard, meaning that the citation will not require monetary penalties or corrective action.
The exception is for a known life rescue only, not for standard search and rescue activities.
When the exception becomes the practice, OSHA citations are authorized.
[29 CFR
1910.134(g)(4)(Note 2)]

 

[Wheel]

A lot of interesting points. One reason I made this thread was because in my opinion, I don't believe you should have join the fire service or change heath care provider titles, to have a fulfilling, stable, and rewarding career in EMS. This includes being treated and compensated like a professional.
As a whole, our nation is not close to this yet. I think we have a lot to learn from the other 1st world countries and in my opinion we cannot progress any further without mandating a degree in some way. I will say I am excited to see the national healthcare changes currently and the explosion of mobile inter-graded healthcare programs EMS is initiated around the country. These could develop into something...

So that begs the question, what can we as individual providers do to move this process along. Lobby with the NAEMT? Obviously we can all start with becoming more educated, better providers ourselves, but what is the next step? Everyone has great questions and suggestions regarding what the end game should look like, but what we need is a plan. We need a blueprint of tangible things we can actually do in order to see the coming changes in healthcare provide a positive impact on EMS, even though we obviously missed the boat regarding the ACA, what with our almost nonexistent contribution to it.

 

[unleashedfury]

I am all for a ALS provider to be required to have at least a Associates degree in applied sciences. EMS has evolved greatly from its roots from the days of basic EKG's and a few meds to 12/15 lead ECGs, Capnography, RSI, and Much more medications coming onboard.

Will requiring a degree push people away from EMS, Nope, Their is still going to be people who will make it through programs and the ones that get pushed through in hopes that the NREMT test will push them out. Nursing is pushing towards 2 year programs and now they are popping up everywhere I can name 20 nursing programs within a Hour of my home, The Reimbursements are limited and unless the govt. decides that transports are worth more money if a A.A.S. Paramedic vs. a Certificate medic is on the truck a degree will be valueless unless you have intentions on further your education in another spectrum

So that begs the question, what can we as individual providers do to move this process along. Lobby with the NAEMT? Obviously we can all start with becoming more educated, better providers ourselves, but what is the next step? Everyone has great questions and suggestions regarding what the end game should look like, but what we need is a plan. We need a blueprint of tangible things we can actually do in order to see the coming changes in healthcare provide a positive impact on EMS, even though we obviously missed the boat regarding the ACA, what with our almost nonexistent contribution to it.

Even as more educated providers we are still stuck at the bottom of the food chain. The NAEMT is a powerless EMS advocate in comparison to other Lobbying professional associations.

 

[Wheel]

Even as more educated providers we are still stuck at the bottom of the food chain. The NAEMT is a powerless EMS advocate in comparison to other Lobbying professional associations.

I am aware of all of this. My question was "What do we do?" I meant it as a point of discussion. There will always be reasons not to try to progress, like the NAEMT being ineffective and being at the bottom of the food chain. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be thinking of ways to move forward. All of the talk of progress is wonderful, but it won't get anywhere if we don't have some kind of plan of action.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

If you want ligitimate change for future of ems get doctorate PhD degrees or MD/DO degrees and become involved in acvancing this profession.

 

[Wheel]

If you want ligitimate change for future of ems get doctorate PhD degrees or MD/DO degrees and become involved in acvancing this profession.

What kind of PhD do you think is going to equip someone to improve EMS? A PhD is a research degree. If you mean doing EMS research, then ok, but if you're talking about affecting other parts of the EMS system I'd say that's overkill.

I'd also say that becoming a physician would also be overkill. Other allied health professions advanced without leaving their profession for another. Nursing, respiratory therapy, physical therapy, radiology techs, etc.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

And how many of those professions allow 2 week transition course for medics? Yet we allow anyone to be a medic in 2 weeks.

If you want to be taken seriously, yes you need credibility and research to back it. If you dont have a degree how can you argue the merits of mandatory degree?

 

[rescue1]

False. 2 in 2 outdoes not apply in life threats.

FURTHER..how may small or for that matter large FDs regularly make grabs? How many successful RIT operations do you hear about? The insistence on interior firefighting inside modern day (since the late 60s to early 70s) construction is why we continue to kill firefighters in the same manner at a rate of 100 a year.

I think only about a quarter of those 100 are due to interior structural firefighting.
As of 2012, only 22 firefighter LODDs were due to "activities on a fireground", and maybe half of those were due to actual fire conditions as opposed to cardiac or other medical events.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/ff_fat12.pdf

 

[Carlos Danger]

And how many of those professions allow 2 week transition course for medics? Yet we allow anyone to be a medic in 2 weeks.

I got duped, then....it took me 9 months!

 

[ffemt8978]

How about we stop talking about firefighter staffing requirements and get back on topic?

 

[EpiEMS]

And how many of those professions allow 2 week transition course for medics? Yet we allow anyone to be a medic in 2 weeks.

This is a fair point. After all, a (US-trained) MD will not (cannot?) just take the NCLEX and become a nurse.

How about we stop talking about firefighter staffing requirements and get back on topic?

Sorry! My mistake!

 

[Summit]

This is a fair point. After all, a (US-trained) MD will not (cannot?) just take the NCLEX and become a nurse.

You could stop at the "will not" and leave it at that. Or you could say that a MD would need a transition to RN course too, mostly role and operational. I bet they could do it in two weeks.

 

[Wheel]

And how many of those professions allow 2 week transition course for medics? Yet we allow anyone to be a medic in 2 weeks.

If you want to be taken seriously, yes you need credibility and research to back it. If you dont have a degree how can you argue the merits of mandatory degree?

Are you replying to me? If so, I didn't say anything about not having a degree to have credibility. I'm finishing my degree and would advocate for others to do the same in order to become leaders and teachers in EMS. I just don't think it needs to be a PhD or MD/DO. There are good reasons to do both of those degrees, but if your primary goal is to support and develop EMS you can do it in other ways that don't require an extra 4-10 years of post graduate training and education.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

Imagine if a medical director of tertiary care facility or big name hospital was able to change requirements for paramedic hire form this:

Requirements -
Minimum five years experience as an Paramedic, preferably in a large metropolitan area. Current licensure and/or certification as listed below:

· High school graduate or GED
· Paramedic certification as appropriate to assigned location
· Basic Life Support (BLS) certification
· Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certification
· Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS)
· Pre-hospital Trauma Life Support (PHTLS)
· Neonatal Resuscitation Program (NRP) certification
· Drivers must have a current

To this
Requirements -
Minimum bachelors degree as a Paramedic from accredited senior college/university, with 2 years on the job experience (preferred).

No degree no acceptance!

· Paramedic certification as appropriate to assigned location
· Basic Life Support (BLS) certification
· Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certification
· Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS)
· Pre-hospital Trauma Life Support (PHTLS)
· Neonatal Resuscitation Program (NRP) certification
· Drivers must have a current

Imagine this was the highest paid gig in town, working in a system that does both CCT and 911 with progressive protocols. Having other players: IFT companies, fire departments also in the game with requirements that they have now (no degree needed).

Do you think medics would go try and acquire a Bachelors degree to apply for this position?

 

[Wheel]

Imagine if a medical director of tertiary care facility or big name hospital was able to change requirements for paramedic hire form this:

Requirements -
Minimum five years experience as an Paramedic, preferably in a large metropolitan area. Current licensure and/or certification as listed below:

· High school graduate or GED
· Paramedic certification as appropriate to assigned location
· Basic Life Support (BLS) certification
· Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certification
· Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS)
· Pre-hospital Trauma Life Support (PHTLS)
· Neonatal Resuscitation Program (NRP) certification
· Drivers must have a current

To this
Requirements -
Minimum bachelors degree as a Paramedic from accredited senior college/university, with 2 years on the job experience (preferred).

No degree no acceptance!

· Paramedic certification as appropriate to assigned location
· Basic Life Support (BLS) certification
· Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certification
· Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS)
· Pre-hospital Trauma Life Support (PHTLS)
· Neonatal Resuscitation Program (NRP) certification
· Drivers must have a current

Imagine this was the highest paid gig in town, working in a system that does both CCT and 911 with progressive protocols. Having other players: IFT companies, fire departments also in the game with requirements that they have now (no degree needed).

Do you think medics would go try and acquire a Bachelors degree to apply for this position?

It would be great, of course. This is not the reason you go to medical school though. Your primary job as a physician will be to treat your patients. If you want to be a doctor and be involved in EMS you will have a huge impact. That does not mean that you can't have an enormous impact within the our profession with a bachelors or masters degree.

 

[Wheel]

It would be great, of course. This is not the reason you go to medical school though. Your primary job as a physician will be to treat your patients. If you want to be a doctor and be involved in EMS you will have a huge impact. That does not mean that you can't have an enormous impact within the our profession with a bachelors or masters degree.

Basically what I'm saying is that Med school is a long and difficult road to follow just because you are passionate about EMS, which will be a small part of a physician's job. Change in EMS will have to come from the inside. If the people that do the job don't want change, no physician will force it on them. For the most part I do agree. I'm just asking for disussion's sake what we as paramedics can do to move us forward outside of increased personal standards and education. Things such as lobbying, teaching, etc.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

It would be great, of course. This is not the reason you go to medical school though. Your primary job as a physician will be to treat your patients. If you want to be a doctor and be involved in EMS you will have a huge impact. That does not mean that you can't have an enormous impact within the our profession with a bachelors or masters degree.

Yes, I agree going to medical school mainly to advance EMS would be a bad proposition. Matter of fact, advancing EMS as a profession would not even be on my list of things to do.

What impact can you have as a medic with bachelors or masters degree on EMS? Write a few articles in Jems prefacing the great injustices incurred by EMS as a profession? Start a blog with a strong message? Perhaps EMS study that no other health care professional will give two :censored: about? Or post on a forum where people who do EMS think nurses should just challenge the test or at most do 2 week course.

 

[Wheel]

Yes, I agree going to medical school mainly to advance EMS would be a bad proposition. Matter of fact, advancing EMS as a profession would not even be on my list of things to do.

What impact can you have as a medic with bachelors or masters degree on EMS? Write a few articles in Jems prefacing the great injustices incurred by EMS as a profession? Start a blog with a strong message? Perhaps EMS study that no other health care professional will give two shi-ts about? Or post on a forum where people who do EMS think nurses should just challenge the test or at most do 2 week course.

So first your advice is that you should get an MD or PhD if you want to advance EMS, but now you say it would be a bad proposition to do so? I feel like we're talking in circles.

I would agree that the best way to improve EMS would probably be through research, articles, blog posts and things like that. The desire to move forward must come from strong voices within our profession.

 

[Clipper1]

Yes, I agree going to medical school mainly to advance EMS would be a bad proposition. Matter of fact, advancing EMS as a profession would not even be on my list of things to do.

What impact can you have as a medic with bachelors or masters degree on EMS? Write a few articles in Jems prefacing the great injustices incurred by EMS as a profession? Start a blog with a strong message? Perhaps EMS study that no other health care professional will give two shi-ts about? Or post on a forum where people who do EMS think nurses should just challenge the test or at most do 2 week course.

For starters more Paramedics might actually be able to be in charge of the academic departments at the colleges with Paramedic programs. Right now the majority of programs at community college and universities with Paramedic courses are over seen by nurses with the higher education. The exception is the medic mills which have very few to no education requirements except for a cert the same level as being taught or higher which again can also be an RN teaching part of the EMT and Paramedic courses.

 

[ffemt8978]

Can anyone guess what time it is?