ego and delusions
I would dare say they do. Being a physician or med student adds zero validity to the the ignorant statements that have been said.
MD's bashing PA's because they have more education? Seriously....you want a prize? Nowhere was it said that PA's are the same as MD's. Ego......
In my time on this board I have seen all manner of arguments for the mid level provider. Especially physician Assistants. (or arew they calling themselves associates now?)
Some of the more respected members here who have chosen a mid level path have valiently defended it posting studies from every nursing association, PA association, and all manner of biased sources.
We have had this discussion many times.
But here are some of my observations.
PAs in particular like to claim they are just as effective as MDs. They tout their economic benefits ad generally denounce medical education as wasteful excess.
But how many people see education as wasteful excess?
In this very thread, staunch supporters wonder about the history of teeth in modern medicine. Unfortunately they don't see the implications. HUman evolution is intrinsic to the practice of medicine. Unfortunately for them, they were never shown the importance.
In actual US medical practice, I often see PAs talk a tough game. But I have never seen one step up and be equal to an MD. The same talkers are the ones spouting how great the PA profession is, how they are independant, don't need oversight, fill a primary care role, etc.
I have seen the same thing on this discussion.
But I will just point out...
most of the PA propaganda is just that, kool-aid. Anyone who points out the flaws of the propaganda has an ego problem. Whether or not I have an ego problem is debatable, but I will honestly say when it comes to people who claim to be as good, who have not invested the time, money, and other sacrifices I have is a sure fire way to set me off.
When the kool-aid approach to convincing MDs of the value of PAs fails or is met with resistance, you never hear them speak of limitations or role on the team. You hear more entrenched delusions of grandeur.
Tell me? How many PAs have walked into their hospital administration, touted the equivalency and economic benefit and suggested hiring only PAs and decreasing the physician staff?
How many PAs are employed by physician practice groups tell those group members they have useless and wasted education and were not smart enough to go to PA school because they can do the same things?
I will venture to guess none.
I would offer the very same people and organizations spouting how great the PAs are, not coincidentally are the same ones that talked about how PAs would fill the primary care void in the US. But in a quick internet search today, even PA based websites are talking about how this didn't happen and the trend towards PA specialization is expected to continue.
Could it be that these same liars about PAs serving underserved community needs are the ones spouting the greatness of PAs?
When you look at the history of medicine, particularly that of the DO, they were first accepted by the military and the underserved populations. It is a true and tested way to break into the medical profession. But unlike PAs most DOs have more education than MDs, not less. They do not pretend they are serving some greater good that MDs are not. They get into the same specialty and high earning practices as everyone else, and are just as capable. (by the way they did meet the internationally recognized minimums)
I am not suggesting DOs and PAs are the same, as DOs and MDs are the same, but their history is applicable to this conversation.
So let's just call a spade a spade. PAs tout themselves as a cost effective, mission specific solution to healthcare. Basically moving into direct competition for money that MDs are competing for. General system healthcare dollars. By their own admission they are not flocking to serve thier underserved targets. For profit healthcare embraces lesser paid "alternatives" that can bill for the same or similar rates. With even the largest academic centers filling their halls with them.
But here is a question:
If a PAs equal to an MD, why do they accept less money?
Conversly, if a PA is not equal an MD, what gives them the right to bill equally?
What's reall vexing to me is if a healthcare organization, hospital or private practice group bills the same, why do PAs accept less salary?
It seems an aweful lot like scabs in a union shop to me.
But here is something else to think about.
When I defend my value and commitment, I am egotistical, arrogant, and ignorant.
But many people who we have never seen here before get wind of my arguments against the PA kool-aid, they are compelled to come here and offer counter-point.
I have never posted on a PA forum. I don't even look at them. They might have PA vs MD vs garbage man vs street walker arguments all year. I would never know and certainly don't feel compelled to defend my profession there.
It seems like that response is similar to religious zealots who have their faith questioned.
Could it be I question your faith? Could it be that you feel threatened somebody might actually be persuaded by my arguments as to why PAs are not equal to doctors and might then decide they will not accept PAs? What if those people are politicians? Patients? Your game would be up.
I suggest you offer such passioned and spirited defense, because the PA profession might have to answer for some of its propaganda and it can't.
Perhaps more policy makers should have this discussion?
Now I don't think I will convince my new detractors, but not everyone here is immune from rational or counter argument.
The defense of my profession is no more egotistical, arrogant, and ignorant than yours. That is simply the pot calling the kettle black.
Rather than argue with me, why not simply surround yourself with people who make you feel better by drinking the koool-aid with you and call me an fool?
"And then He said, get this, that having more education makes you a better provider and people should not pay the same for less... arrogant fool."
"I am better than thou art now; I am a fool, thou art nothing"
Wise words from one of those useless literature classes.
