my question was taken in the wrong way and i acted as the noob and bit on the hook. so to you i should apologize for not taking it to pm/email form sooner. we all have our reasons for doing this job stand behind them.
2630
Volunteer squads- minimum participation rules?
- Thread starter 135boom
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my question was taken in the wrong way and i acted as the noob and bit on the hook. so to you i should apologize for not taking it to pm/email form sooner. we all have our reasons for doing this job stand behind them.
2630
medic417
The Truth Provider
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First thanks AJ.
2630 I am 911 only, non fire, services are city or county owned services. All levels are payed all hours on duty. While I wish all ambulances would have 2 Paramedics we do not always have that. I am involved paid with many services. Here are some basic facts based on memory as not in my office:
1. Fewer than 200 calls per year, fewer than 1200 people, but we cover over 2000 square miles, and a hospital in town. Paramedic on every shift sometimes 2 as there is today. Pay is around $20 Paramedic and $14 basic with great insurance and retirement. Most in area are below poverty level.
2. About 1500 calls. Around 10000 people and a hospital, cover around 3000 square miles with 3 ambulances 24/7 with at least 1 paramedic. Pay similar to above. Poverty stricken area.
3. About 500 calls. Primary for about 3000 square miles mutual aid for another 3000+ square miles. Nearest hospital 90 miles away. 24/7 ALS. Pay is about $16 Paramedic $12 basic. Decent benefits. One of the highest percentage of poverty levels in the USA.
I am helping other services in area as well either filling slots or consulting.
Why am I against volunteers? Pre Hospital Medical care is a profession not a hobby. I am trying to avoid a hijack of this thread so I will avoid getting into all of my whys but AJ addressed many and you can also read other posts I have made to see.
Well, let me throw my tow cents in here:
Having volunteers is healthy. Why do I say this ? For many reasons:
Some of the best EMT's and Paramedics that I know started as volunteers. When I started doing this in the early 1990's, there was only 4 paramedic units in the county. Private ambulance services were only transport and ran 911 in the city of Scranton. As of right now, we have 3 paid private services in Lackawanna County. There is plenty of calls to go arround to everyone. If the paid services had to do it by themselves, it would be a struggle to keep up with the call volume. Some voulnteer services have now gone combination paid/volunteer, some pay per call. I work for a paid service and I do volunteer also. Do you really think some boroughs or counties are going to try to staff ambulances in this time of money crisis ? Everyone is here for a common good, let's stop knocking on each other. AND I DO NOT VOLUNTEER AS A "SPECTATOR SPORT", I found that comment to be offensive. I DO IT TO HELP PEOPLE AND TREAT THE SICK AND INJURED !
Having volunteers is healthy. Why do I say this ? For many reasons:
Some of the best EMT's and Paramedics that I know started as volunteers. When I started doing this in the early 1990's, there was only 4 paramedic units in the county. Private ambulance services were only transport and ran 911 in the city of Scranton. As of right now, we have 3 paid private services in Lackawanna County. There is plenty of calls to go arround to everyone. If the paid services had to do it by themselves, it would be a struggle to keep up with the call volume. Some voulnteer services have now gone combination paid/volunteer, some pay per call. I work for a paid service and I do volunteer also. Do you really think some boroughs or counties are going to try to staff ambulances in this time of money crisis ? Everyone is here for a common good, let's stop knocking on each other. AND I DO NOT VOLUNTEER AS A "SPECTATOR SPORT", I found that comment to be offensive. I DO IT TO HELP PEOPLE AND TREAT THE SICK AND INJURED !
Amen. This is the same as my county. I am brand new to our service, I'm starting basic school in September, the reason I joined was not because in June we are going to paid-per-call, but to help my community. Our vollie EMS service was absolutely wonderful when they came twice for my dad in the past couple of years. That made me want to join them, I've always wanted to be in EMS, but helping people of my community (who I've known my whole life) is my priority.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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So do you also deliver meals to the elderly? Do you pick up the trash? Do you work the water and sewer for free? Do you mow the grass for free? If you want to volunteer there are other ways that benefit many more.
JPINFV
Gadfly
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:deadhorse:
I actually do mow the grass for all those on my small street who wish, and shovel their driveways and sidewalks. Out of 10 houses on my street, I mow and shovel 7 of them not including my own. I also trim bushes for a few of the people. All of whom are the elderly. Also, for my Eagle Scout project a few years back, I built birdhouses and removed underbrush for a retirement community. In bad weather I get the mail for all the elderly on my street, so yes I think I do my fair share of volunteering. I have done other things for those on my street or others that I know, if they ask me and I have the time and ability, then I do it for free. The only time I charge is if I have to buy something special in order to do the project, and even then I just charge them what I paid for the item. Oh, I just saw another part of your post, both my church and the boy scout troop I am a leader with have Adopt-A-Highway programs, so yes I also pick up the trash. So no I don't take meals to them on a regular basis, but if someone would ask, I would. By the way I all this while going to college full time and working part time AND working with ems. I am a Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America and I take it to heart in everything I do, so yes I am very volunteer oriented no matter what it is.
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OK folks - guess what - I AM a Community Leader, and I'm making a suggestion that we keep this thread on track with the OP's question regarding minimum participation requirements.
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Medic417,
You talk about competency, but then say that someone who can only volunteer for a few hours should be welcomed with open arms.
I run with a BUSY combination agency, and the staff that seem to have the most problems providing care are the volunteers that run one shift a week, and usually those that run less than that.
-They don't know where things are on ALL the apparatus
-They are usually our "clipboard EMT's" who don't seem to know how to treat a patient unless they have the coaching of a clipboard in their hands. This also means they don't actually touch the patient until AFTER they've asked all their demographic questions, as well as PMH and Meds.
Those of us that either run multiple shifts a week, and/or run with other agencies don't usually have these problems.
My question in my combination agency is why should we have volunteers on the truck that are not competent practitioners at one time of day, and then have a higher expectation for our career staff during the day? I think we should be staffing the aparatus with competent folks 24x7, and I think that requiring a minimum amount of hours is a way to go about that.
We currently DO NOT have a minimum standard, and it causes some resentment between those of us that run lots of shifts to those that run few.
We have a gym, as well as computer and laundry facilities that some "members" use regularly, even though they haven't set foot on an ambulance in over two months. Why should they be allowed to reap the benifits of membership without actually volunteering?
We also have a group of members that have been members for several years, and although they aren't really active, they work full-time in EMS or Critical Care settings, and still come around now and then when they can, because they got their start with us. They still have lots of patient contact, just not with our service. I've got no problem with these folks helping out when they can.
Anyway - in short, I think there should be a minimum requirement, with the goal being to ensure competent EMS providers... I feel this should be flexible for those people that are involved with other EMS agencies.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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As I said and you qouted "other than requiring that a person be able to do patient care properly you have no right if you are not paying to demand anything". Sounds like they can't do patient care so kick them out. Don't see the problem. You don't pay so nothing besides proper patient care should be expected and knowing your equipment is part of proper patient care as you have to know what you have and how to use it to do proper patient care.
resq330
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Sorry to dig this back up but it was the closest one I found to the questions I have.
To those that said they have requirements such as 24 hrs/month, how does the administration track your hours?
To those that said they have requirements such as 24 hrs/month, how does the administration track your hours?
As an all volunteer service we used to have a hand written log book, now we have a finger swipe and computer program...other departments have swipe cards like time clocks which go into a system and it tallies hours and also provides a way of scheduling... check out emsmanager.com emsplanner.com...I think this is what you are talking about
resq330
Forum Lieutenant
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Thank you for the links. These are very close. We would rather try the finger reader, so it makes them go to the station and then check off a unit. The only problem I see with that is, what if a member forgets to come back and clock out? Then, their time would accumulate and they would easily get their 24 hours in. We do not require people on "Run Crew" to stay at the station. But, if we allowed them to just log into the internet based time clock, who would know if they actually do their Run Crew. It could work but could also be a problem at the same time.
While true...there are two ways to combat this..first...common sense...if someone logs in and does not log out there has to be a reason i.e. they forgot or they have a wicked long PCR or multiple PCR's...it keeps track on when the person was there not just the number of hours...Also I believe that the system can be set to log someone out after a period of time (you will have to check on that)...In any system you have there will be the need for review...Stick the reader by the door and use common sense...haha
Furthermore...just to address your other question...we have only one computer that can log in...no one else from outside (unless granted permission) can access the log in...we must physically be at the building using that specific computer...And..if you have people that will rob the system then nothing short of paying someone to watch those people will work...these are all just aids in keeping track of time and hours...and covers your a** if the state audits you...
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