Using tape/voice recorders

[JJR512]

I have a very bad memory. I haven't run any calls yet (still waiting for my EMT-B card), but I'm worried that when I have to start writing reports, I won't remember all the details, especially all the numbers. From the training I've done, it doesn't seem practical to think I'll be able to write down all the numbers and other stuff I'll need for the later report.

So what I'm thinking is I can get one of those little mini tape recorders (or one of the electronic tape-less ones, even better), clip it inside my shirt breast pocket, set it to voice-activated, and whenever someone around me speaks, it will record what's said. So, if I or my partner call out "200 over 140" or "Pulse 60 and weak", it will be recorded, and I'll have the recording to refer to later.

However, in the state of Maryland (and probably in many other places), it's illegal to record someone without their knowledge and permission. And I might not always be able to tell someone that I'm doing it. But I don't know how important that is, because I'm not making the recording to use as evidence or anything like that, just more like an automated form of note-taking.

Do any of you (or does anyone you know) do anything like this? Do you know if it's allowed or not where you are?

 

[DT4EMS]

It is unlawful to record when no one knows it is in use (like setting up a hidden mic). If I record a conversation between me and another person, it isn't totally illegal.

I would steer clear of recording calls, not becuase it is illegal, but what may happen.

For instance..... a call does't go exactly as planned...... there is a recording to show how messed up it was.

You and I can undertand how tough it is to get a 500 lb person out of an upside down Yugo in a ditch.... but the jury won't understand the..... "Sh$% sh'es a heffer" comment that comes out on tape.

Just my .02

I prefer the 3 inch tape on my leg to write vitals down in a hurry. Then it gets thrown away after the info is transferred to my PCR.

 

[m33kr0b]

This is a modification on DT4MS's idea

Statstix Vitalnote Sticker

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=BK004&cat=2772

$10 for 100 not a bad deal if you ask me.

 

[Kendall]

I agree with DT4EMS. It's a bit of a doozy. Personally, I write it on the back of my gloves. It doesn't work well with latex or vinyl, but the purple nitriles we have work great!

I think those stickers would do well on the top of your kit - It'd be a pain for me on the leg. Plus, a kit can be covered, if you want to protect the patient's confidentiality.

 

[ffemt8978]

I would suggest that you avoid the tape recorders at all costs, because the recordings can become evidence at a later trial. Instead, you might want to have several people read vital signs to you at the same time while you try to record them on paper.

 

[MMiz]

I would suggest that you avoid the tape recorders at all costs, because the recordings can become evidence at a later trial. Instead, you might want to have several people read vital signs to you at the same time while you try to record them on paper.

I second what he says. I have a horrible memory, but it hasn't been a problem. I would suggest having your clipboard nearby, and you can always write on your glove. I've accidently thrown away tons of gloves with vitals on them, but I can always grab another set of vitals. Anything important, like meds, allergies, or Hx needs to go on the clipboard.

Our service provides a "First Response" sheet with big prompts for the important stuff. Then it can be copied to the formal, and far more detailed, run report. If you're really bad, those large report stickers that you stick on your knee sound like a great idea!

 

[fm_emt]

The back of our PCR forms have lines. I just flip the paper backwards and scribble down stuff that I need to have on hand quickly.

My handwriting is so awful that nobody else can read it anyway.

Tape recorders/etc would be a very bad idea. The lawyer friend I just ran a paraphrased version of your question by said "Recording = BAD BAD BAD." So, yeah, bad.

Good idea you have, because it shows that you want to make sure you get vital information, but in reality it would get you into a lot more trouble than anything.

Heck, scribble vitals on the patient. If they're out cold, they won't mind. ;D

 

[Kendall]

The back of our PCR forms have lines. I just flip the paper backwards and scribble down stuff that I need to have on hand quickly.

Heck, scribble vitals on the patient. If they're out cold, they won't mind. ;D

PCR's - Doesn't the show throgh the triplicate/quadricate?

Too true and very funny!!! ^_^

 

[ffemt8978]

Heck, scribble vitals on the patient. If they're out cold, they won't mind. ;D

I actually carry a green sharpie marker for just this reason ... and to mark where I get pedal pulses. The reason is with a ball point pen, you have to press down harder on the foot, and this can cause some pain (especially in an ankle/foot fx).

 

[fm_emt]

PCR's - Doesn't the show throgh the triplicate/quadricate?

Oh, most of ours aren't carbon forms. We do work at a certain venue that has carbon forms, and when I'm there I carry around some 3x5 cards and scribble stuff on them instead, noting the card with the event number so I don't get too confused.

 

[JJR512]

OK, thanks for the advice.

I had thought I would just erase the recording after I got whatever I needed from them, to avoid the issues of the recordings being used against anybody ever. But I'll try one of the other ideas first.

 

[FF894]

This is a modification on DT4MS's idea

Statstix Vitalnote Sticker

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=BK004&cat=2772

$10 for 100 not a bad deal if you ask me.

This is similar to what is used on the helos. I use the back of my glove or tape on my leg. I would avoid the recorder for all the reasons the others have said, its just not a good idea. Don't be too nervous about taking down info, it comes easy with experience. I know that I have trouble remembering info whereas some people can never write it down and remember everything. :unsure: I have to write everything down as I get it or its lost. Just practice using gloves or a small pad of paper. Everyone has their own technique that works for them.

 

[gradygirl]

The back of the nitrile glove is classic for us. While we're on scene, one of the responders always has the clipboard and the run form and takes notes as the other responder treats the patient. (Unless, of course, it's a two person job.) We always give a copy of our run form to the transporting crew so that they have the patient's information and at least one set of vitals. (Yay for non-carbon triplication!) The only major issue we've encountered with this system is that our refusal forms are printed on the back of the run forms, so the duplication substance makes it hard to write and sign on.

 

[Jon]

TCERT - I worked for a company that had tripsheets like that... all the signatures were on the back of the 1 page.... get gel pens.

 

[oldschoolmedic]

I had a friend years ago that used to go home and keep a log of all the patients he transported, and their complaints, etc... Unfortunately for him it became a huge legal stink, and lo and behold, it was subpoenable info he had to turn over to the law. Keep nothing written, except copies of incident reports( learned that the hard way). Do not record conversations, they will almost never be used to exonerate you, instead it will more than likely be the nail in your professional coffin.

As a sidenote, would you tell your partner you were recording everything? Would you respect their wishes if they thought it was a bad idea?

Put the shoe on the other foot...If it was your mom or dad who had a bad outcome on a call, and you felt the crew did not do enough to treat them, but you happened to notice a mic sticking out of their pocket, wouldn't you want to hear the tape? How would you react when you found out the recording was erased? Don't you believe your attorney would find that rather incriminating in and of itself?

Write on your glove or scrap paper like the rest of us kiddo. In eighteen years it hasn't failed me yet.

 

[ffemt8978]

Write on your glove

And if they really want to subpenoa that, they get to dig through some biohazard trash.

 

[gradygirl]

TCERT - I worked for a company that had tripsheets like that... all the signatures were on the back of the 1 page.... get gel pens.

Thanks, I think you may have just resolved our biggest response issue. Props!

 

[jaron]

On a side note. As far as inappropriate comments being made on a call (I know, it happens) remember some monitors have audio recorders built in for QA purposes.

 

[FF894]

By the way, I dont know about you guys, but I am not a big fan of bringing the clipboard in. We have big metal clipboards that open up to keep the trip sheets and pens inside. Bringing it in to the house is useless. We have all proved we have different ways of keeping the info written down somewhow without bringing in a huge metal clipboard that just gets in the way. No need to bring in the huge heavy brick that takes up one of your hands that could be used to carry in other equipment. Then on the way out you can't carry patient and equipment out. It gets in the way or even left behind. Write the actual trip sheet in the truck or at the hospital!

 

[ffemt8978]

I am a fan of bringing in the clipboard, but we just have normal ones vice the big metal bricks. On our clipboards, we have a street form that has spaces for all of the info we need to write our report and bill, and it has our HIPAA signature sheet.