the 100% directionless thread

DesertMedic66

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So we transport a patient home. His electric wheelchair is broken his house is covered in feces and he can't take care of himself (he fired his caretaker 3 days ago and was transported to the hospital 15 hours ago because he fell out of his wheelchair and was covered in feces.) so we get PD on scene and they write their reports and we transport him back to the ER he just came from.

The hospital wanted us to transport him back to his house again and leave him there. I'm not going to have a patient die at home because the hospital told us to leave him there. So our company refused to transport him to his house. That whole call was B.S.
 

bigbaldguy

Former medic seven years 911 service in houston
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So we transport a patient home. His electric wheelchair is broken his house is covered in feces and he can't take care of himself (he fired his caretaker 3 days ago and was transported to the hospital 15 hours ago because he fell out of his wheelchair and was covered in feces.) so we get PD on scene and they write their reports and we transport him back to the ER he just came from.

The hospital wanted us to transport him back to his house again and leave him there. I'm not going to have a patient die at home because the hospital told us to leave him there. So our company refused to transport him to his house. That whole call was B.S.

That's a crappy situation. Seriously though that's a tough call, it's calls like the one you're describing that make me realize I could never do the EMT gig day in and day out. I really respect you guys that do this on a full time basis it takes a thicker skin than I'll ever have.
 

CollegeBoy

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We are just coming into a call streak, it is extremely foggy tonight, there is cloud to cloud lightning, and our sponsoring hospital isn't monitoring their radio..... again...... causing one of the primary units to have to ask dispatch to call them on the phone (unable to do it themselves due to poor cell reception). Yet somehow I am just relieved that there isnt a full moon.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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So we transport a patient home. His electric wheelchair is broken his house is covered in feces and he can't take care of himself (he fired his caretaker 3 days ago and was transported to the hospital 15 hours ago because he fell out of his wheelchair and was covered in feces.) so we get PD on scene and they write their reports and we transport him back to the ER he just came from.

The hospital wanted us to transport him back to his house again and leave him there. I'm not going to have a patient die at home because the hospital told us to leave him there. So our company refused to transport him to his house. That whole call was B.S.



Question 1, does he have a psychiatric or neurological illness of any kind? This is the entire "grave disability" section (and remember, if he does, to use your 4 point restraints).

Question 2. If issue 1 isn't a problem, is the patient happy to be there in that condition?

Question 3. Why is it the hospital's job to warehouse him? (note: This is a greater societal issue as it shouldn't be the hospital's job to take care of him).
 

lightsandsirens5

Forum Deputy Chief
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So if we camped, would it be cold at night? Our van doesn't do well in the snow at all (Rear Wheel Drive E350 12 pass van), so we're going to have to pass on that.

Oh yea, them big old 12 and 15s don't do so great in the snow.

Camping this time of year around here and down through eastern Oregon, pretty much all of Idaho, western Montana, northern Wyoming, that area, is great! I love warm, almost hot days cooling down to just slightly chilly nights. Like early morning temps that you can wear shorts and a t shirt with a hoodie. It is perfect around here right now. 80s and higher during the day, 60s or so at night. A few nights we might hit high 50s.

I say go for it soon as school starts up.


Sent from a small, handheld electronic device that somehow manages to consume vast amounts of my time. Also know as a smart phone.
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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Question 3. Why is it the hospital's job to warehouse him? (note: This is a greater societal issue as it shouldn't be the hospital's job to take care of him).

Because EMS loves to slough off responsibility and generally have a vast misunderstanding of the acute care hospital environment....
 

DesertMedic66

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Question 1, does he have a psychiatric or neurological illness of any kind? This is the entire "grave disability" section (and remember, if he does, to use your 4 point restraints).

Question 2. If issue 1 isn't a problem, is the patient happy to be there in that condition?

Question 3. Why is it the hospital's job to warehouse him? (note: This is a greater societal issue as it shouldn't be the hospital's job to take care of him).

#1: No. But the officer still wrote a 5250 hold.

#2: We got clearance from our operations manager (our supervisors supervisor) to not use restraints. The patient wanted us to clean his house and stay there as his caregivers. The patient "just wanted to be at home" and "doesn't care about living conditions". Quotes are his actual words.

#3: PDs request was to send him back to the hospital so he can get medically cleared and Social Services contacted to get him help at his house (a caregiver) or to put him in an assisted living home. Last I heard the hospital was just going to get him a new electric wheel chair and send him home (not using our ambulance company because we refused to transport him back to his house in those living conditions.).
 
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JPINFV

Gadfly
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#1: No. But the officer still wrote a 5250 hold.

How did the officer write a 5250 for someone who isn't even on a 5150?

#2: We got clearance from our operations manager (our supervisors supervisor) to not use restraints. The patient wanted us to clean his house and stay there as his caregivers. The patient "just wanted to be at home" and "doesn't care about living conditions". Quotes are his actual words.
Wasn't your position that county protocol requires restraints? Can the ops supervisor override county protocol?

Oh, and if he wants the EMTs to stay as care givers, he's fairly clearly delusional, among other things (which means that the main answer to 1 is "yes").

#3: PDs request was to send him back to the hospital so he can get medically cleared and Social Services contacted to get him help at his house (a caregiver) or to put him in an assisted living home. Last I heard the hospital was just going to get him a new electric wheel chair and send him home (not using our ambulance company because we refused to transport him back to his house in those living conditions.).
Wasn't he just medically cleared?

You know what? Screw it, tie the police officers up with 5150 transports, and tie up the officer at the ED while putting just about every patient before his. Why is it the hospital's social services job to place this patient and not county social services job?
 

DesertMedic66

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How did the officer write a 5250 for someone who isn't even on a 5150?

Wasn't your position that county protocol requires restraints? Can the ops supervisor override county protocol?

Oh, and if he wants the EMTs to stay as care givers, he's fairly clearly delusional, among other things (which means that the main answer to 1 is "yes").

Wasn't he just medically cleared?

You know what? Screw it, tie the police officers up with 5150 transports, and tie up the officer at the ED while putting just about every patient before his. Why is it the hospital's social services job to place this patient and not county social services job?

I have no clue how the officer was able to do it because it's not my job to fill it out. And to be honest I don't really care how he was able to do it. All I need to do my job is the paper with his signature on it and that's what I got.

Once again just following the orders from the higher ups. I'm a replaceable EMT so I am not going to piss anyone in management off.

Yes he was medically cleared but all 5150's 5250's have to go to the local hospital before any kind of psych facility or other medical facility.

And once again it's not my job to play which social service is going to deal with him.

EDIT: I could see the news headlines if we left him 'Local Ambulance company leaves a severly disabled man for death in his feces covered house'. Now that would not end nicely for me, my partner, and the company.
 
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JPINFV

Gadfly
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I have no clue how the officer was able to do it because it's not my job to fill it out. And to be honest I don't really care how he was able to do it. All I need to do my job is the paper with his signature on it and that's what I got.
I just find it odd. On the bright side, you don't need the original paperwork for 5250s.

Once again just following the orders from the higher ups. I'm a replaceable EMT so I am not going to piss anyone in management off.

Yes he was medically cleared but all 5150's 5250's have to go to the local hospital before any kind of psych facility or other medical facility.
Yea... I just find it odd with the entire playing county policy off against company policy.

Similarly, I find it odd to take a patient back for clearance to the hospital that they just came from.

And once again it's not my job to play which social service is going to deal with him.
Never said it was, it's more of a commentary on how all the parts play together.

EDIT: I could see the news headlines if we left him 'Local Ambulance company leaves a severly disabled man for death in his feces covered house". Now that would not end nicely for me, my partner, and the company.
It'll hurt for a couple of weeks, then everyone will stop caring when the next flashy thing comes up. Anyone remember the issue a few years ago with, if I recall correctly AMR followed shortly behind by Americare (or was it the opposite order?) for "dumping" patients at skid row (again, IIRC, one was shady and the other was a clear case of "this is where the patient says they lived)? Yea... anyone care anymore? This is also when the smart company comes out and just blantantly says, "We follow the wishes of our patients, even if we disagree with them. We can no more make decisions for elderly patients than we can unilaterally make decisions regarding your health care."
 
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DesertMedic66

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The guy is a frequent flyer. But we never had an issue transporting him back because he always had a caretaker. Still don't know why he fired her. The police, hospital, and me/my partner all contacted EPS (elder protection services). Other then that there is nothing else we could do.
 

katgrl2003

Forum Asst. Chief
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So far this shift I've had: SOR, drunk, helped the cops break into a house, injured person, MVA with entrapment, disregard enroute, and a DOA. It's been a busy shift.

Side note, excuse the enthusiasm, Brown will be here in a little over 12 hours!!!
 

nomofica

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Jesus, I haven't been on this website since November. :unsure:
 

Sasha

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Jesus, I haven't been on this website since November. :unsure:

Welcome back, you were missed. I hope you stick around!

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk
 

Shishkabob

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So far this shift I've had: SOR, drunk, helped the cops break into a house, injured person, MVA with entrapment, disregard enroute, and a DOA. It's been a busy shift.

Funny... I had a "I'll call 911, then refuse transport, then call them back 10 minutes later, but leave the scene before they get there, but then call them to my house 10 minutes after that and still not want to go to the hospital"




...
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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Funny... I had a "I'll call 911, then refuse transport, then call them back 10 minutes later, but leave the scene before they get there, but then call them to my house 10 minutes after that and still not want to go to the hospital"




...

But...at least you didn't get to run through a tank and a half of fuel stuck in 12 hours of transfer hell.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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But...at least you didn't get to run through a tank and a half of fuel stuck in 12 hours of transfer hell.

What's with dispatch and taking trucks out of the most busy places to run transfers? There's a reason why VZ has 6 trucks, you have 2.5, and K-town has 2.5. How about they take some out of W, HLR or O-town? Jeez.




Not to mention dispatch refuses to follow the posting plan for VZ...
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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What's with dispatch and taking trucks out of the most busy places to run transfers? There's a reason why VZ has 6 trucks, you have 2.5, and K-town has 2.5. How about they take some out of W, HLR or O-town? Jeez.




Not to mention dispatch refuses to follow the posting plan for VZ...

I was at HQ last night, so it was kinda expected, but the other truck shut down due to no staff, so we caught the full brunt of the Shep. Not to mention the night before I DID get pulled out of H-town to run transfers, I know dispatch didn't plan it but we had three hit back to back to back. They did at least send someone else to Parkland last night.

The really crappy part? I gotta be back at HQ at 1900 to start a 36 between there and H-town.
 
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Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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I have the next 5 days off since I took Tuesday off.




Then I go for a 24 in C.. 12 hours off.. then a mandated 12hr in WP. Gah. 48 hours away from home and only geting paid for 36.


I wonder... do I get mileage for WP even though it's CLOSER to my house? :p
 
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