Stats reflective of EMS quality?

[JWalters]

I was just browsing the NREMT site looking at the statistics for first time pass rates at the basic level.

I live in MA..we are rock-bottom of the barrel with a whopping 52%. I noticed that a couple states (Hawaii, Wyoming...I'm sure I missed others) had near complete passes on the first attempt. It got me wondering about the differences in EMS system quality from state to state. I live close enough to state borders to easily work in one of five states. I can look at statistics for training and testing as well as state protocols all I want but that doesn't really give a true picture. Does anyone have experience in both a low-pass state and a higher-pass rate state? Are the systems vastly different in terms of quality?

While this might seem a bit nitpicky, I plan to start paramedic school in the late spring so I don't want to be working in a state with the worst system....I want to learn the most I can in the best way I can, and if I may be better served going to another state it is an avenue I want to pursue.

 

[Twitch559]

Imo the quality of operations depends on how much the employee wants to be there. Regardless of where you go, there will be people who could care less if someone is going into cardiac arrest

 

[JWalters]

Imo the quality of operations depends on how much the employee wants to be there. Regardless of where you go, there will be people who could care less if someone is going into cardiac arrest

I agree. But, in every field, there are systems that tolerate that from an employee and those who don't. Obviously the ones who don't are more likely to provide a quality service. Maybe I'm overthinking it...but I can't help but wonder if the statistical data about passing the national exam are reflective of the bs tolerance in any given state.

As an example, in my basic class there are people who will "pass" the test for the class but will surely fail the national exam. The class I am taking is too easy to pass, imo, because leniency is given where I don't feel it should be. It is not just where I am taking the class-numerous other agencies in the (greater) area run similarly. If the class were treated like a job and students were treated as employees as in they didn't progress if they didn't do their job (i.e. their work) I imagine that the number of people who passed the class would go way down but the percentage who passed the national exam on the first shot who go up significantly.

Of course, any instructor is free to run a class as they see fit. I just wish it would demand more accountability for people who are looking to work in a helping profession.

 

[Gurby]

MA's pass rate being low could be due in part to the fact that they just switched to national registry. Before last year, one could just take the MA test and be certified as an EMT in MA. Maybe the schools haven't adjusted their curricula quickly enough?

 

[Chewy20]

I was in EMT class two years ago in MA, and we were taught everything towards the NREMT. So I don't think that's the problem @Gurby . MA has some of the better EMS systems in the public sector. Privates are privates not much you can do about that.

On another note, who cares about the NRMET? haha some people are not the best test takers but know their crap out in the field. Or maybe MA is fully of idiots, I don't know.

 

[Twitch559]

I think it would be hard to get a statistical number in relation being the fact of acceptable actions or quality of care is rated by personal view, unless every unit state wide was discreetly observed and rated on a set rating scale

 

[Brandon O]

I would guess that the MA rate is spurious. @medicdan may have a comment.

 

[JWalters]

On another note, who cares about the NRMET? haha some people are not the best test takers but know their crap out in the field. Or maybe MA is fully of idiots, I don't know.

Well, being from MA, I'm inclined to go with the last part of that....why do you think the public systems have to be good

 

[Chewy20]

Well, being from MA, I'm inclined to go with the last part of that....why do you think the public systems have to be good

Exactly, I lived in Plymouth my entire life until last year. "Hold my beer and watch this" seems to be the state motto.

 

[Meursault]

I was just browsing the NREMT site looking at the statistics for first time pass rates at the basic level.

I live in MA..we are rock-bottom of the barrel with a whopping 52%.

I don't want to be working in a state with the worst system

Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!

What question are you trying to answer here? What information would best answer it? What do you mean by "state system" and "EMS quality"?

 

[Christopher]

I was just browsing the NREMT site looking at the statistics for first time pass rates at the basic level.

I live in MA..we are rock-bottom of the barrel with a whopping 52%. I noticed that a couple states (Hawaii, Wyoming...I'm sure I missed others) had near complete passes on the first attempt. It got me wondering about the differences in EMS system quality from state to state. I live close enough to state borders to easily work in one of five states. I can look at statistics for training and testing as well as state protocols all I want but that doesn't really give a true picture. Does anyone have experience in both a low-pass state and a higher-pass rate state? Are the systems vastly different in terms of quality?

While this might seem a bit nitpicky, I plan to start paramedic school in the late spring so I don't want to be working in a state with the worst system....I want to learn the most I can in the best way I can, and if I may be better served going to another state it is an avenue I want to pursue.

I wouldn't read much into that data...it is pretty suspect when it lists NC as requiring NR which it clearly does not.

Edit: also, having just taken the NRP exam....it is a laughable test to use. Tons of irrelevant questions ("should you go L&S to a patient who has fallen?"), obsolete protocols, and medication choices straight out of the 1990's. (If I hadn't read a paper on verapamil the day before going in, I would have never known the answer to the 5 CCB questions I had. Plus at least 3-4 questions on the "superiority" of amiodarone or that it was "safe" for WPW patients...what standard are these loons using?)

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

First pass success rates do not reflect the quality of a Paramedic program. There are to many outside variables that can effect a students test success. Especially with firefighter heavy paramedic programs in particular. Depending on the time of year the program ends they may spend the next 6 months on fires and attempt it without a review of the course work. Obviously a very bad choice..... This was Something that was noted in the program I taught with.

 

[DrParasite]

Keep this in mind: many schools have 95%+ pass rates on the state tests. The reason for this is they kick out people who don't score high enough on the tests during class. So (hypothetically) if you don't get a 90% on the course final, they just don't let you take the state test. Keeps the schools numbers high on people who pass on the first time, but doesn't accurately reflect on how many students who start the class will pass it on the first time.

With the amount of variables among systems, as well as how many paramedics won't work in the town/county/state that they went to school in (while others graduate and immediately move to a new area for the purpose of getting a job), and you see that initial graduation rates don't necessarily corolate with how good an EMS system is.