Speeding with family...

[akflightmedic]

Ok, here is a little spinoff from other threads.

Some feel it is ok to violate traffic laws since they are responding to a call and some people feel they are always on call due to their volunteer status.

If you think it is ok to have these mindsets, is it ok to force your family to go along with your views??

Should you subject them to you always runnung calls?

Should you violate traffic laws while doing this, in effect forcing them to go along with your judgement? What about the kids who can not voice protest?
Is it ok to put them at risk as well, for someone else's emergency?


Here is a nice article (The capital letters were done by me for emphasis)......


Firefighter hit by state trooper en route to emergency call
January 19, 2007

By MELISSA DiPANE
6 News Anchor/Reporter

SEVIER COUNTY (WATE) -- The Tennessee Highway Patrol is investigating whether a trooper went too far in forcing a firefighter answering a call to stop.

Michael Huskey was in the family minivan WITH HIS WIFE AND KIDS when he heard a call from dispatch needing an emergency driver to help a nearby ambulance.

Huskey turned on his flashers and drove 85 in a 55 mile per hour zone when a state trooper tried to pull him over.

Huskey radioed dispatch to call off the trooper but he says the trooper swooped in front of him, causing an accident.

"Once he stopped my client, he found that out and yet he still handcuffed and arrested and investigated it further and took him to jail." says Jim Gass, Huskey's attorney.

Huskey got a speeding ticket and was charged with failure to yield to lights and sirens.

According to the report, the officer did not intend to crash into the minivan.

Huskey will go before a Sevier County judge in a few weeks.

 

[DT4EMS]

Great find.

I will try to follow this case to see how it pans out. Most "laws" governing the response of emergency vehicles (defined by statute) to disobey traffic laws provided the operator of said vehicle has "Due regard" for the safety of those around.

85 MPH and failing to yield to show show "Due Regard". Most policies I have seen try to limit speeds of responders to 10-15 MPH above the posted speed limit.

I posted before.......... I was at a conference where the speaker was talking about EMS liability issues and lawsuits. He stated the #1 reason agencies are in litigation right now was because of crashes.

The #1 reason patient care related was airway.

 

[MedicPrincess]

85 in a 55 is excessive. I don't even drive my ambulance 85 in the 55 zones. And his wife and kids were in the vehicle, is irresponsible and lacking in concern for them as well.

In the state of Florida, if you are violating a traffic law and get a ticket WHILE RESPONDING the volunteer department who gave you your red light card is required to pull it, thus taking the PRIVILEGE away from you.

He choose not to stop for the trooper, thereby creating a chase situation for that trooper. He needs to pay his ticket and be glad thats all hes getting charged with.

 

[Jon]

I saw this on TheSecretList yesterday... Chief Goldfelder promised to update when he knew more, so I'm waiting to hear... he seemed to be of 2 minds... 1 that the vollie was driving like a moron, and 2 that the LEO was a jerk - but I'm not sure the "whole story" is out yet.

 

[DT4EMS]

I saw this on TheSecretList yesterday... Chief Goldfelder promised to update when he knew more, so I'm waiting to hear... he seemed to be of 2 minds... 1 that the vollie was driving like a moron, and 2 that the LEO was a jerk - but I'm not sure the "whole story" is out yet.

Both could be very true.

 

[MMiz]

Our protocol allows us to go a maximum of 10 MPH over the speed limit as weather, traffic, and patient condition allows.

85 in a 55 is excessive. As I was driving home a couple days ago I was seeing what I would determine an excessive rolling stop. I thought anything between under 5 MPH with RLS activated, and both EMTs clearing traffic, was appropriate.

I'm sure I'll get hell for this post, but that's just my 2 cents

 

[Stevo]

i gave up my red light years ago

i found out that, even if i was obeying the letter of the law, when that red light was on, my insurance was basically voided

unless of course i wished to purchase a policy that had an excessive premium...

so i get there when i get there

you (Joe Public) don't like it?

my heart pumps purple piss for you...

vote in a few more substations

~S~

 

[fyrdog]

I got stopped for doing 86 in a 65 with 3 of my kids in the car. The Trooper said that on the Connecticut interstate's anything over 85 is considered reckless driving and with the 3 kids it is also 3 counts of risk of injury to a minor.

I was stupid and on my way home from my mothers.

Driving a speeding minivan with the hazard lights on is just a stupid as no one knows who you are. I wouldn't have yield and probably would have flipped him off too. He should have yielded to the the trooper too. He has a responsibility to obey the signal from the police in his POV.The emergency he was responding to was not his but some one else's.

 

[FF/EMT Sam]

I saw this on TheSecretList yesterday... Chief Goldfelder promised to update when he knew more, so I'm waiting to hear... he seemed to be of 2 minds... 1 that the vollie was driving like a moron, and 2 that the LEO was a jerk - but I'm not sure the "whole story" is out yet.

Amen. Of course, this isn't really a problem where I live since the police frequently block intersections for volunteers so that they can get to the station...

 

[Mobile Medic]

my heart pumps purple piss for you...

~S~

Now there is a mature response... *shakin my head*

 

[Stevo]

never had to field the 'Where the F***you been' customer response Mobile Medic?

or is your service simply big enough to have it's complaint dept ride along with you for such unsavory barbs?

~S~

 

[Tincanfireman]

If you think it is ok to have these mindsets, is it ok to force your family to go along with your views??

When I was still a volunteer with the local FD, any family in the vehicle meant an automatic non-code response. For my .02, you have a greater responsibility for the safety of your family than anyone you're going to help. It has been proven time and again that running RLS is an inherently dangerous act that greatly increases the chances of being involved in an MVC. You are the one who stood up and signed on the dotted line, not the kids and your S.O. Uphold your responsibilities as a husband and dad by insuring the safety of your loved ones first.

 

[disassociative]

Well, here in TN -- the troopers WILL IN FACT stop an ambulance
for running lights and siren on the interstate; or any other violation for
that matter. In Chattanooga; there is actually a comission setup that
ensures emergency vehicles obey the laws. State troopers are encouraged
to contact this facility during such events, however--most of them take it
into their own hands.


Personally, I do not think that EMS has a right to break ANY traffic law.
The first rule is Scene Safety; Well, an injured medic/emt helps no one.

Come to think of it, surgeons are about the only group that I could think of
that would benefit from speeding to a scene, not to say that early care from
medics/emt isn't effective; however, surgery is the definitive care for a trauma
pt.

 

[FF/EMT Sam]

Well, here in TN -- the troopers WILL IN FACT stop an ambulance
for running lights and siren on the interstate; or any other violation for
that matter.

If I'm ever a priority one patient, the ambulance had :censored: well better run Code 3.

Come to think of it, surgeons are about the only group that I could think of
that would benefit from speeding to a scene, not to say that early care from
medics/emt isn't effective; however, surgery is the definitive care for a trauma
pt.

And just how are the surgeons going to get to that patient if we don't bring them to the ER? Is the patient better served when they bleed to death while we toodle along the highway at a leisurely 55?

 

[mfrjason]

Driving 85 mph while your family is in the car with you is totally unacceptable. In some states,law says that under no circumstances are you to drive in emergency status when you have members of your family with you,and it dont matter if you have proper lights and siren on your vehicle,its not allowed.

 

[mfrjason]

-add on- 65 is an acceptable speed limit just as long as you can prove that you are on the fire department or ambulance and that you are on your way to the station due to a call.

 

[disassociative]

Personally if I had a pt that needed to get to a hospital that quick; I would just utilize aeromedical assets; given the pt meets activation criteria of course.

 

[firecoins]

Well, here in TN -- the troopers WILL IN FACT stop an ambulance
for running lights and siren on the interstate; or any other violation for
that matter. In Chattanooga; there is actually a comission setup that
ensures emergency vehicles obey the laws. State troopers are encouraged
to contact this facility during such events, however--most of them take it
into their own hands.


Personally, I do not think that EMS has a right to break ANY traffic law.
The first rule is Scene Safety; Well, an injured medic/emt helps no one.

Come to think of it, surgeons are about the only group that I could think of
that would benefit from speeding to a scene, not to say that early care from
medics/emt isn't effective; however, surgery is the definitive care for a trauma
pt.

Pulling over an ambulance seems rather ridiculous to me. There is a difference between an ambulance dricing safely but breaking standard laws and and driving unsafely and not following the laws. We are dealing with medical emergencies and time is of the essence.

Its one thing if a volunteer is doing this in his own vehicle, its another to actually stop an actual emergency vehicle on duty. The previous should be illegal.

 

[Ridryder911]

Couple of things..Speeding an additional speed from 70 to 85 will not save you more than a few minutes at the most... do the math.

Second, those that apparent really thinks the few additional few seconds of driving fast is going to make the difference, apparently do not how real trauma and pathophysiology severity outcomes. If one minute is crucial, then chances are you are not going to make it and surgery will not matter.

Sure, not procrastinating, making sure our scene times are narrow. Expediting care is utmost priority.

There are several areas that are studying and actually are no longer responding to and from without lights and sirens. There are not any major changes in response time as well as no change in patient outcomes.

In lieu of speeding fast, and needless reckless endangering public, ourselves, and property... maybe we should examine quicker dispatch, better increased first responder citizen programs and position of EMS units during peak times to reduce response times.

I ask you, if they were to totally remove and light and sirens from emergency services, would you still do EMS ?


R/r i911

 

[firecoins]

It is ridiculous for police to interfere with an ambulance enroute to or from an emergency scene in order to enforce traffic laws. There are traffic laws written under the guise of safety that have little to do with safety. What are they written for? Money collected from cops issuing tickets. There are still speeding laws written during oil shortages of the 1970's on the assumption the limit saves gas but is kept in place because raising it would mean fewer speeding tickets.