Should EMT even be a prerequisite to paramedic?

[teedubbyaw]

Given I don't start paramedic school until next month, I feel that EMT-B was a great platform for me. Not sure how the other programs are run, but every single teacher of ours was a paramedic with many years of experience.

When I went on my ride outs I had confidence and a understanding of everything (for the most part) that was being done. Terminology was also understood.

 

[Christopher]

BLS needs to be a prerequisite to ALS.

If you become a paramedic without being an EMT-B first, you won't be as familiar with the skills of your EMT-B partner. Paramedics definately need to know what their partners can or cannot do.

I'm not so sure this is a reason to not go straight thru to Paramedic.

Paramedics should, by definition, know what an EMT is going to do because Paramedics do what EMT's do.

Paramedicine is a continuum, it isn't "you do BLS, I do ALS". This is a tough mentality to shake in BLS and ALS providers alike.

I work as an EMT on an industrial fire brigade even though I'm a paramedic at other services, and I can tell you without a doubt that paramedicine is EMT. EMT's will arrive at the conclusion a patient needs an IV and medications, they just can't do it

 

[Veneficus]

This would also eliminate some of the people who just go to EMT and Paramedic school because they want to be firefighters.

What makes you think that?

 

[Christopher]

Given I don't start paramedic school until next month, I feel that EMT-B was a great platform for me. Not sure how the other programs are run, but every single teacher of ours was a paramedic with many years of experience.

When I went on my ride outs I had confidence and a understanding of everything (for the most part) that was being done. Terminology was also understood.

If your paramedic program took 3-4 years and included 1000-2000 hours of clinical time, I doubt you'd care that you didn't do "EMT".

You'd have your platform built into the curriculum!

 

[NYMedic828]

This would also eliminate some of the people who just go to EMT and Paramedic school because they want to be firefighters.

I find this point a little silly? What is wrong with wanting to move to a career field with higher pay and better benefits?

I enjoy EMS. I don't enjoy my coworkers. I get promoted to firefighter jan 14 2013. That doesn't mean I'm going to have the star of life tattoo on my arm lasered off on jan 15...

 

[Christopher]

I find this point a little silly? What is wrong with wanting to move to a career field with higher pay and better benefits?

I enjoy EMS. I don't enjoy my coworkers. I get promoted to firefighter jan 14 2013. That doesn't mean I'm going to have the star of life tattoo on my arm lasered off on jan 15...

Sell out! You're dead to us...jk.

I ride with medics from time to time who did it solely to get a FF job. I don't care as long as they put effort into their practice.

But that's the same for folks who get their EMT or Medic just to get hours for PA school and are total drag arses on the truck...it is just slightly more endemic to the fire side of things.

Regardless, allowing straight-to-medic programs would likely not help that situation in a lot of states.

 

[Veneficus]

I find this point a little silly? What is wrong with wanting to move to a career field with higher pay and better benefits?

I enjoy EMS. I don't enjoy my coworkers. I get promoted to firefighter jan 14 2013. That doesn't mean I'm going to have the star of life tattoo on my arm lasered off on jan 15...

I am just pointing out if somebody told me I would have had to take an A&P class to be a firefighter, I would have done so in a heartbeat.

I don't think the solution is raising the size of the hurldes to entry, I think the solution is to increase the length of them.

That way you are not trying to filter ambition, you are trying to filter perseverence.

Look at it like a marathon. How many people start? How many finish?

 

[teedubbyaw]

If your paramedic program took 3-4 years and included 1000-2000 hours of clinical time, I doubt you'd care that you didn't do "EMT".

You'd have your platform built into the curriculum!

Basic is the foundation of all medic care. It always falls back to the basics, right?

If they changed it to be included in the curriculum, I guess that would work great, too, but at least now I have an understanding of how things work and something I can build off of.

 

[Veneficus]

Basic is the foundation of all medic care. It always falls back to the basics, right?

Who told you that?

 

[RocketMedic]

BLS does not help a patient who needs ALS care. All of the NPAs, Kerlex and O2 in the world won't help someone who needs advanced assessment, medication and transport to a proper facility.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm totally psyched for my ghost ride and release from FTO on Monday- was supposed to be Friday, but we managed to pitch a no-hitter.

 

[Christopher]

BLS does not help a patient who needs ALS care. All of the NPAs, Kerlex and O2 in the world won't help someone who needs advanced assessment, medication and transport to a proper facility.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm totally psyched for my ghost ride and release from FTO on Monday- was supposed to be Friday, but we managed to pitch a no-hitter.

I've stopped with BLS and ALS and usually do:

- Least invasive to most invasive.

Paramedics can do more invasive procedures, but EMT's do some as well. I don't do "advanced" life support, I just have the capability to perform more invasive life support.

 

[teedubbyaw]

Who told you that?

You'd disagree that something as simple as ABC's aren't the basis of pt care?

 

[RocketMedic]

I've stopped with BLS and ALS and usually do:

- Least invasive to most invasive.

Paramedics can do more invasive procedures, but EMT's do some as well. I don't do "advanced" life support, I just have the capability to perform more invasive life support.

Exactly. It's a false distinction. We, as paramedics, can simply go a little further up their treatment pathway than an EMT, similarly to how a doctor can treat them to a point far beyond our ability.

 

[STXmedic]

You'd disagree that something as simple as ABC's aren't the basis of pt care?

It's a false distinction. We, as paramedics, can simply go a little further up their treatment pathway than an EMT, similarly to how a doctor can treat them to a point far beyond our ability.

What rocket said. BLS and ALS are unneeded terms. Never on a call does "What BLS or ALS maneuvers does this patient need?" cross my mind. It's more along the lines of "What intervention does my patient need?"

And like Chris said, move from least invasive to most invasive.

Just because a paramedic has a skill that a basic does not doesn't make it ALS; it's just not in the basic's scope to provide said intervention.

 

[Veneficus]

You'd disagree that something as simple as ABC's aren't the basis of pt care?

I disagree that the basic EMT scope provides much, if any support, to these outside of CPR.

The primary function of a basic is to drive to the hospital while doing the least amount of harm. (sucks to hear, I know, I had to come to terms with that myself.)

 

[teedubbyaw]

Maybe for your ambulance companies, but the firefighters that are all EMT certified here are a huge help to the medics. From doing assessments, attaching 12 leads, using King LT's, getting full pt history to give to the medics, etc.

 

[NYMedic828]

Maybe for your ambulance companies, but the firefighters that are all EMT certified here are a huge help to the medics. From doing assessments, attaching 12 leads, using King LT's, getting full pt history to give to the medics, etc.

All of which can be equally achieved WITHOUT an EMT certification excluding king airway.

FDNY fireman are all CFR and it makes no difference.

 

[Aprz]

I disagree that the basic EMT scope provides much, if any support, to these outside of CPR.

The primary function of a basic is to drive to the hospital while doing the least amount of harm. (sucks to hear, I know, I had to come to terms with that myself.)

Lol, you perfectly described the job description of EMTs.

 

[teedubbyaw]

All of which can be equally achieved WITHOUT an EMT certification excluding king airway.

FDNY fireman are all CFR and it makes no difference.

Same could be said about a lot of skills, not the point I was getting at.

 

[NYMedic828]

Same could be said about a lot of skills, not the point I was getting at.

Skills are irrelevant, to an extent. Knowing when to use them, or more importantly not use them, is of the utmost importance. It is the difference between all levels of medical care. Education is what provides you with the knowledge you need.

That's great you can put everyone on O2. Or you can perform an IV or 12 lead on every patient. Does that make it right?

The average paramedic program provides the very bare minimum of A&P/pharmacological knowledge. That said, the EMT bare minimum provides next to none. It is an if this do that education.