School Nurse Wanna Be's

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Katy

Katy

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Some actually. When was the last time you had a dental exam in the school nurses office beyond checking to see if you have all of your teeth and what kind of condition they were in.
Used to come into the classroom, show us how to brush our teeth, explain what plaque was, and other common gum diseases.


Yes, but I did not say "nurse" I said "school nurse". I don't think there is any technical requirement for what kind of 'nurse' a school nurse must be. Can they be an LVN? CNA? If there is no steadfast rule I don't think it can be argued that they have to be one particular level of care provider. Just my two cents though. That one is open to interpretation.
School Nurse is also protected, because it has nurse in it. And I'm surprised to find out that you would actually think a CNA could hold a School Nurse position, when they aren't even a nurse.
 

Shishkabob

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Used to come into the classroom, show us how to brush our teeth, explain what plaque was, and other common gum diseases.
And a Paramedic is unable to do just as well?



If you're worried about the "more educated" person doing it, then we just need to have dental hygienist come and do it.
 

JPINFV

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Yes, but I did not say "nurse" I said "school nurse". I don't think there is any technical requirement for what kind of 'nurse' a school nurse must be. Can they be an LVN? CNA? If there is no steadfast rule I don't think it can be argued that they have to be one particular level of care provider. Just my two cents though. That one is open to interpretation.


Again...

2795. Except as provided in this chapter, it is unlawful for any person to do any of the following: (a) To practice or to offer to practice nursing in this state unless the person holds a license in an active status. (b) To use any title, sign, card, or device to indicate that he or she is qualified to practice or is practicing nursing, unless the person has been duly licensed or certified under this chapter.


Using a title with the term "nurse" is going to indicate that that provider is qualified to practice or is practicing nursing. Paramedics are not licensed under the chapter of the Business and Professions code in California regarding nursing.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=02001-03000&file=2795-2800


So, again, if someone used the term "specialty care paramedic" who isn't licensed as a paramedic, little less any level of EMS, you wouldn't care because of the "specialty care" part of the title?
 

Nerd13

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Do you really think EMT training would make you feel comfortable in giving injections, health education, nutrition, educational plans, teaching, public speaking, and much much more ? No. It is a certification though. And you would have less knowledge because you learned nothing or very little of teaching, dental hygiene, counseling, and mentoring.

Giving injections is no big huge miracle thing. If you're shown how to do it once, it's pretty much the same thing over and over again. You could argue that you would need to be a medic for this and that would be fine. I can FOR SURE tell you I would be able to do all of the above as a paramedic. You're arguing that school nurses have some crazy in depth job of dental hygiene. They aren't dental hygienists, they make sure you have your teeth and you're taking care of them. Mentoring is done by paramedics very frequently by coworkers but I don't know what kind of mentoring school nurses are doing either. That job is usually done by actual mentors. So much of this stuff is done mostly by other educational providers and school nurses have a hand in it. I'm not arguing that every single paramedic is completely qualified to be a school nurse but there are a lot of nurses that aren't qualified either. It goes both ways. Many medics and many nurses will be qualified for the same position. It's not the impossible task you're making it out to be. Most nurse stations I've seen in schools are primarily general health and well being and very minor first aid. Everything else gets an ambulance called for anyway.
 
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Katy

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EMT? No. Paramedic? Yes. Community / Advanced Practice Paramedic? Most definitely.


What do you think most 911 calls are, except for primary care situations?
Please show me where most Paramedic programs educate their students how to properly
-teach children
-fundamentals of education
-assess behavorial status
- assess growing milestones
- teach educational programs
- eat and advanced nutrition
The Paramedic wouldn't' get the education knowledge that is a must for a School Nurse, and would weakly touch on behavior, nutrition, and dental hygiene.
 

Nerd13

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So, again, if someone used the term "specialty care paramedic" who isn't licensed as a paramedic, little less any level of EMS, you wouldn't care because of the "specialty care" part of the title?

Actually, I see that every day because 'specialty care' as well as 'critical care' denote a wide variety of programs and certifications with a wide variety of educational requirements so no, I wouldn't care. I see your point I just don't think it's the huge deal that it's being made out to be as long as an EMT/Paramedic doesn't specifically say "I'm a nurse".
 
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And a Paramedic is unable to do just as well?
If they don't know how, then how are they able ?

I
f you're worried about the "more educated" person doing it, then we just need to have dental hygienist come and do it.
Often not the case, hence why I said they were the sole provider of medical care in most cases.
 

DESERTDOC

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Again...



[/B]Using a title with the term "nurse" is going to indicate that that provider is qualified to practice or is practicing nursing. Paramedics are not licensed under the chapter of the Business and Professions code in California regarding nursing.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=02001-03000&file=2795-2800


So, again, if someone used the term "specialty care paramedic" who isn't licensed as a paramedic, little less any level of EMS, you wouldn't care because of the "specialty care" part of the title?

Well, when it comes to titles, I see your point. Paramedic is a protected title in the U.S. in other countries it is not.

Registered Nurses, Licensed Vocational Nurses and Paramedics all have their own little titles and they are all protected.

For me, this is not about titles.
 

CAOX3

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I'd like to point out that my Paramedic book (Brady) covered pretty much every single topic that this thread has argued that only RN's are taught.

Oh well then by all means pick your medical profession.

You cant even guarentee a paramedic has had a traditional anatomy class.

Training isnt the same as education, sorry but it isnt. This isnt a personal attack it just isnt the same.

And why do paramedics get their panties in a bunch all the time when compared with the nursing profession?

If you want to be a school nurse go to nursing school.
 

usafmedic45

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Is anyone else looking at this argument and going "What the :censored::censored::censored::censored: does it matter?"?

There's a damn law in Indiana that says things I've done with a couple members of this forum in the confines of my apartment are illegal simply because we weren't married to each other. There are a lot of really asinine laws. Accept that fact, accept that nurses have a lobby, stop arguing with a CNA and move on to more important things. You know....like which light bar makes you look least like an overzealous Ricky Rescue with a fulminating case of micropenis.


NOTE: I'm a bottle and a half of wine into the night so I make no guarantee that anything above makes one damn bit of sense nor do I acknowledge any attempt to check my spelling or grammar. Thank you.
 

DESERTDOC

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The Paramedic wouldn't' get the education knowledge that is a must for a School Nurse, and would weakly touch on behavior, nutrition, and dental hygiene.

Please scan and post your Paramedic diploma, certificate of completion etc, that allows you to make this statement.
 

Nerd13

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Oh well then by all means pick your medical profession.

You cant even guarentee a paramedic has had a traditional anatomy class.

Training isnt the same as education, sorry but it isnt. This isnt a personal attack it just isnt the same.

And why do paramedics get their panties in a bunch all the time when compared with the nursing profession?

If you want to be a school nurse go to nursing school.

I agree, just pointing out that at least some paramedics are going to be taught these things. You can't assume that NO paramedics could possibly be qualified to take care of kids in a school setting. That would be like assuming that NO nurses have the capability to function in an EMS transport setting. Neither are true.
 
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Katy

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Giving injections is no big huge miracle thing. If you're shown how to do it once, it's pretty much the same thing over and over again. You could argue that you would need to be a medic for this and that would be fine. I can FOR SURE tell you I would be able to do all of the above as a paramedic. You're arguing that school nurses have some crazy in depth job of dental hygiene. They aren't dental hygienists, they make sure you have your teeth and you're taking care of them. Mentoring is done by paramedics very frequently by coworkers but I don't know what kind of mentoring school nurses are doing either. That job is usually done by actual mentors. So much of this stuff is done mostly by other educational providers and school nurses have a hand in it. I'm not arguing that every single paramedic is completely qualified to be a school nurse but there are a lot of nurses that aren't qualified either. It goes both ways. Many medics and many nurses will be qualified for the same position. It's not the impossible task you're making it out to be. Most nurse stations I've seen in schools are primarily general health and well being and very minor first aid. Everything else gets an ambulance called for anyway.
Yes, and the reactions are the same every time too ?
You wouldn't be able to do it if you seriously don't know how School Nurses mentor.
I know they are not, but they do receive additional training in dental hygiene over average Nurses.
Just because and ambulance is called, doesn't mean that time freezes till it gets there. School Nurses have to assess for diabetic shock, concussions, internal bleeding, and heart attacks often. All of which happen at school, and are the EMT's always going to be there ? No.
 

Shishkabob

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If they don't know how, then how are they able ?

And you think an ADN knows everything they need to know about nursing / medicine after they graduate?

You DO understand that, as a rule, ADN is foundation of nursing, and the nurse is expected to choose a specialization after graduation and learn most of it OTJ. Look at 8jimi8 here on the forum. He's an RN, yet he''s just had to go through a crap load of stuff to get cleared to care for cardiac surgery patients. Not stuff they teach in AND school.



So, if a nurse is expected, and able to, learn more specialized stuff outside of school, after licensure and certifcation, why is a Paramedic unable to?

Paramedicine is a specialization in emergency medicine, trauma, cardiology and respiratory emergencies... but apparently you think they're completely incapable of learning anything beyond that?


Often not the case, hence why I said they were the sole provider of medical care in most cases.
What do you think rural Paramedics do?
 

usafmedic45

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would weakly touch on behavior, nutrition, and dental hygiene.

Hey Slappy....you do realize that most nurses can't hold an intelligent conversation about any of those topics right?
 

rmabrey

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I dont know about anyone else, but but when I went to the nurses office, no matter what level of education I was in, I either got to lay down, or they called my parents. If SHTF the ambulance was called. The most work I saw the nurse do in high school was at the ticket booth for football games.
 

ffemt8978

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Please scan and post your Paramedic diploma, certificate of completion etc, that allows you to make this statement.
I'm making the statement based on many things I can assure, while I don't have the completion of the program, I can freely make assumption based on what I have gotten from talking to many many medics. They have told me about the weak links in their programs, I'm simply posting what I know of them him.
 

BandageBrigade

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Is anyone else looking at this argument and going "What the :censored::censored::censored::censored: does it matter?"?

There's a damn law in Indiana that says things I've done with a couple members of this forum in the confines of my apartment are illegal simply because we weren't married to each other. There are a lot of really asinine laws. Accept that fact, accept that nurses have a lobby, stop arguing with a CNA and move on to more important things. You know....like which light bar makes you look least like an overzealous Ricky Rescue with a fulminating case of micropenis.


NOTE: I'm a bottle and a half of wine into the night so I make no guarantee that anything above makes one damn bit of sense nor do I acknowledge any attempt to check my spelling or grammar. Thank you.

This gets my vote for post of the year. How this thread got this many replies is beyond me.
Although you made need to explain which Indiana law you've be violating.. ;)
 
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