School Nurse Wanna Be's

Status
Not open for further replies.

fast65

Doogie Howser FP-C
2,664
2
38
Yes, I understand all of this as well. All I was pointing out there was that the Nurse that is constantly documenting and watching that patient throughout the day would be a step ahead of the EMS who have no clue about that patient with a medical illness. Could save time, which is crucial. Again, I'm all for them being there and at a scene, but when they claim to be Nurses and don't go through the day-to-day work of a School Nurse.

This is something that has confused me about your post. You make it seem as though a paramedic acting in the role of a school nurse would be off-site, whereas an RN, LPN, or what have you, would be on-site while functioning in the same role. Your post makes it seem as though the level of provider dictates the amount of time they spend with their patients.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
8,264
32
48
Not primary care in general, but an education primary care. School Nurses in my area must have an x amount of experience and various certifications before becoming available for the position at hand.

So tell me, what makes someone good at 'primary care', not competent at 'educational primary care'? What's the difference between an 80 year old at home, and a 22 year old at college? One possesses a TI-83 calculator?


Why do you think Paramedics are incapable of providing competent medical care just because it's a school?






And are you educated in the RN level considering you are not one ?
There are nurses I run laps around when it comes to 'nursing material'. There are nurses who know more than me in 'Paramedic stuff'.

Quit limiting it to just someones original education... and education you have not obtained yourself.
 

fast65

Doogie Howser FP-C
2,664
2
38
So tell me, what makes someone good at 'primary care', not competent at 'educational primary care'? What's the difference between an 80 year old at home, and a 22 year old at college? One possesses a TI-83 calculator?

Oh the good old days of playing Phoenix on my TI-83 :p
 
OP
OP
Katy

Katy

Forum Lieutenant
243
0
0
I don't know what kind of school nurses you had, but at my school we had these people called "health teachers", they covered health and such. The school nurse just consisted of band aids and Neosporin, they weren't a dentist or accountant.

Vaccinations are not a hard thing to do, they're simply an injection, I've given plenty of them. Screenings? Well, I suppose that could just be an ASSESSMENT.

As far as the hypoglycemia thing is concerned, what makes syncope on the playground any different than a 911 call for syncope? The EMT would approach it the same way, they would do the same assessment, and I highly, highly doubt they would miss something as simple as hypoglycemia.
We did have those, but often we would have the School Nurse do health education and puberty education as well. I'm sorry, but School Nurses do far more than that.
No they are not, but experience and extra training nurses go through here further ensure what you just said. Screenings aren't just assessments, they include assessing vision, hearing, and consulting with parents for any abnormal findings and suggesting a Physician for a consultation.
And it doesn't, but for someone who knows a patients health history, would you not think they are better and faster to respond to this persons illness ? I would think so.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
12,681
197
63
Somewhat agreed, but that's not the issue that was brought up.
You can't take an outlier group and use that as a counter. Otherwise any time a "should we arm EMS providers" comes up, the concept of armed tactical medics can be extrapolated to mean that all EMS providers can be safely armed.


The issue that was brought up was that Paramedics are not, and cannot be, as capable as an RN in 'primary care', which is a fallacy, let alone a fallacy portrayed by member who isn't educated at either of the 2 levels in question.
How much education does the average paramedic have regarding non-emergent medications (including administration) and primary care situations? Sorry, but I can completely picture an EMT running as a "school nurse" sending the first "neck pain" patient to the ER to "rule out" spinal injury.

This isn't to say that EMS providers are incapable of being educated and trained to fill that role, but the question regarding the current education standards and how they match up with the demands of a primary/pediatric care clinic style job is pertinent.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
12,681
197
63
Why do you think Paramedics are incapable of providing competent medical care just because it's a school?
What other standard should we go off of if not average education level?
 
OP
OP
Katy

Katy

Forum Lieutenant
243
0
0
So tell me, what makes someone good at 'primary care', not competent at 'educational primary care'? What's the difference between an 80 year old at home, and a 22 year old at college? One possesses a TI-83 calculator?


Why do you think Paramedics are incapable of providing competent medical care just because it's a school?







There are nurses I run laps around when it comes to 'nursing material'. There are nurses who know more than me in 'Paramedic stuff'.

Quit limiting it to just someones original education... and education you have not obtained yourself.
- Public speaking
- Being the only medical provider in the building
- Health education
- Sometimes Psych at this level

You are the one limiting to ones original education, you say because I don't possess a RN degree, I know nothing about it. Then you waltz in like you know everything about RN's, please, don't make that assumption.
 

DESERTDOC

Forum Lieutenant
105
0
0
Just wanted to make sure that I read it as certified nursing assistant correctly.

No worries, you got right.

I wanted to know why, as a CNA student this guest felt it was ok to walk in the door and tells us all about our jobs.
 

fast65

Doogie Howser FP-C
2,664
2
38
We did have those, but often we would have the School Nurse do health education and puberty education as well. I'm sorry, but School Nurses do far more than that.

I'm speaking of school nurses from my experience. What they do in your area is beyond me.

No they are not, but experience and extra training nurses go through here further ensure what you just said. Screenings aren't just assessments, they include assessing vision, hearing, and consulting with parents for any abnormal findings and suggesting a Physician for a consultation.

So I'm guessing the assessment you were taught didn't include those? Because mine did, among other things.


And it doesn't, but for someone who knows a patients health history, would you not think they are better and faster to respond to this persons illness ? I would think so.

See below

This is something that has confused me about your post. You make it seem as though a paramedic acting in the role of a school nurse would be off-site, whereas an RN, LPN, or what have you, would be on-site while functioning in the same role. Your post makes it seem as though the level of provider dictates the amount of time they spend with their patients.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
12,681
197
63
You're one to oft quote studies... so how about a study about primary, non-emergent, care handled by Paramedics?


By your average paramedic? Why would I need a study to discuss a situation where the education doesn't cover it. Going to the extreme, you'd require a study to show that a paramedic can't safely do open heart surgery.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
12,681
197
63
No worries, you got right.

I wanted to know why, as a CNA student this guest felt it was ok to walk in the door and tells us all about our jobs.

Ah, with how you wrote that post, I interpreted it as you talking about yourself being a CNA student, not the OP.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
8,264
32
48
- Public speaking
Because being an RN instantly makes someone a good public speaker, while being a Paramedic means they never interact with the public?

- Being the only medical provider in the building
Remote Paramedcine?

Hell, the vast majority of EMS calls, the Paramedic is the only person in the back with the patient, so they are essentially the 'only medical provider' there. I do rural EMS... I have atleast an hour of just myself with the patient. A school worker can often have EMS there in a matter of minutes if poop hits the fan, and a school health worker often has the luxury of already knowing a students medical history prior to a situation popping up.

- Health education
And we go back, yet again, to the 'why limit to original education', that you yourself used to defend your view in this very post.
You are the one limiting to ones original education, you say because I don't possess a RN degree, I know nothing about it. Then you waltz in like you know everything about RN's, please, don't make that assumption.
 
OP
OP
Katy

Katy

Forum Lieutenant
243
0
0
No worries, you got right.

I wanted to know why, as a CNA student this guest felt it was ok to walk in the door and tells us all about our jobs.

Stop trying to tell me how I felt, when you don't know. I wasn't trying to tell you about your jobs, I was simply saying that EMT's can't say they are RN's. Simple and plain as that. Also, they don't have the education to provide the best care in that setting. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know what being a CNA student has to do with it, but if that is trying to be a "low blow", considered it nothing.
 

fast65

Doogie Howser FP-C
2,664
2
38
Stop trying to tell me how I felt, when you don't know. I wasn't trying to tell you about your jobs, I was simply saying that EMT's can't say they are RN's. Simple and plain as that. Also, they don't have the education to provide the best care in that setting. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know what being a CNA student has to do with it, but if that is trying to be a "low blow", considered it nothing.

I see, but how does that make you feel?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DESERTDOC

Forum Lieutenant
105
0
0
Stop trying to tell me how I felt, when you don't know. I wasn't trying to tell you about your jobs, I was simply saying that EMT's can't say they are RN's. Simple and plain as that. Also, they don't have the education to provide the best care in that setting. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know what being a CNA student has to do with it, but if that is trying to be a "low blow", considered it nothing.

I do not care how you feel. You are insulting, degrading, uneducated and do not know what you are talking about.

You are not even a quarter to being right.

Care to address my questions and posts?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
Katy

Katy

Forum Lieutenant
243
0
0
Because being an RN instantly makes someone a good public speaker, while being a Paramedic means they never interact with the public?

Remote Paramedcine?

Hell, the vast majority of EMS calls, the Paramedic is the only person in the back with the patient, so they are essentially the 'only medical provider' there. I do rural EMS... I have atleast an hour of just myself with the patient. A school worker can often have EMS there in a matter of minutes if poop hits the fan, and a school health worker often has the luxury of already knowing a students medical history prior to a situation popping up.

And we go back, yet again, to the 'why limit to original education', that you yourself used to defend your view in this very post.
- Nope, because it is law that a RN have a Bachelor's to be a School Nurse in most cases, and in those early years, that education usually consists of communication and public speaking classes.
- But is the Paramedic responsible for up to over a thousand people at one time ? Not to mention the Nurse has little to none of the equipment used for interventions on the rig, so that again would put the Paramedic out of their comfort zone.
- Again we go back to it was just an opinion, stop trying to tell me I can't form one when I don't have the degree.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
8,264
32
48
Stop trying to tell me how I felt, when you don't know. I wasn't trying to tell you about your jobs, I was simply saying that EMT's can't say they are RN's. Simple and plain as that. Also, they don't have the education to provide the best care in that setting. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know what being a CNA student has to do with it, but if that is trying to be a "low blow", considered it nothing.

No, your original post questions an EMS provider functioning in the same capacity that a 'school nurse' does, and acting in a 'primary care' type of way.


Not a single mention about calling themselves something they are not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top