Removing seated victim from MVA

SpongeDude

Forum Ride Along
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Was on a call last week- "minor" MVA with pt complaining of slight neck and back pain... No need to rush- (I was observing) - Crew placed collar- manual CSpine and transferred to LSB (via sliding board under butt) -pivoting and placing on board- How many of you all do it this way- vs. using a KED or short board?
 

rescuecpt

Community Leader Emeritus
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Protocol wise, the KED should be used in this situation. That's what it was designed for. Does that happen 99% of the time? No.

If it was me in that car, if they don't use the KED I'd ask, and if they refuse, I'll refuse assistance and sit tight until my squad shows up. LOL.

I already have a spine injury that is easily aggrevated and not something to screw around with.
 

TTLWHKR

Forum Deputy Chief
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Protocol here says to KED all the victims, as indicated...

WTF!?!?!


Who carries more than 1 KED on their rig?

Suppose you have six victims? Are you going to call for a mass-cas response, just to avoid using short boards, etc.?
 

Stevo

Forum Asst. Chief
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well we all know the worse they are, the worse they really get packaged right?

unless your into delivering a perfectly packaged corpse, it's the way it's always been....

~S~
 

SWVAEMT

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rescuecpt said:
Protocol wise, the KED should be used in this situation. That's what it was designed for.

Ditto

Unless the situation calls for rapid extrication, a KED or a short board should be used.
 

SWVAEMT

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TTLWHKR said:
Protocol here says to KED all the victims, as indicated...

WTF!?!?!


Who carries more than 1 KED on their rig?


We have two on every ambulance in addition to the ones on the wagon, ladder, squad, etc that will be responding along with us.
 

SafetyPro2

Forum Safety Officer
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We have a KED on both our ambulances. Of course, we only have one backboard on each too (though in a pinch, we also have a Miller board on each). If we have more than two PTs requiring C-spine, we'd probably be calling for additional ambulances anyway.
 

ffemt8978

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Community Leader
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SafetyPro said:
We have a KED on both our ambulances. Of course, we only have one backboard on each too (though in a pinch, we also have a Miller board on each). If we have more than two PTs requiring C-spine, we'd probably be calling for additional ambulances anyway.

Seem's like you should be carrying more backboards then that. We carry 4 backboards, scoop stretcher, a KED, and a peds backboard on each one of our rigs.
 

TTLWHKR

Forum Deputy Chief
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With three backboard compartments, a strecther, the bench, and two overhead hooks... Never hurts to carry a handfull of boards. We carry five plastic boards, two folding metal boards (for ceiling), two folding-wheeled stretchers, a scoop, a reeves sleeve, a breakaway flat, a KED, three short boards and two of these small blue pedi boards w/ like a dozen annoying straps and tiny head blocks.

The larger ambulances carry more b/c the vans can only carry 1 board. So, we never know when there will be the need.
 

Jon

Administrator
Community Leader
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SafetyPro said:
We have a KED on both our ambulances. Of course, we only have one backboard on each too (though in a pinch, we also have a Miller board on each). If we have more than two PTs requiring C-spine, we'd probably be calling for additional ambulances anyway.
Ummm..

At my squad, every truck has 2 LSB's, 1 KED, 1 Pedi-board, 1 scoop, 1 reeves.

2 LSB's is the minimum any rig should have.
 

MedicPrincess

Forum Deputy Chief
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Have to agree with Jon on this one. Each truck should have a min of 2 LSB's. How many times do you have just 1 patient from an MVA?

By policy, our trucks all have a MINIMUM of 2 LSB's, 1 Pedi Board, 1 Scoop Stretcher, 1 Stair Chair, 1 short board, and 1 KED.

It is not uncommon to find 3-4 LSB's and 2 Pedis.

The KED seems to be the device of last resort around here. We do that LSB under the butt move.
 

emtbuff

Forum Captain
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I agree about having a min of 2 LSB. We however have about 3-4 LSB, 1 KED, 2 Peds Board, Scoop, 1 Stair Chair which can be used as a stretcher.
 

SafetyPro2

Forum Safety Officer
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Doesn't make any sense to me to carry more than one backboard since we can only put one PT in each ambulance anyway. We run Type IIs. If we have more patients than our two ambulances can handle, we call for more ambulances from outside the department.

And, quite often, we DO only have one PT on our TCs. The majority of the ones we respond to are single vehicle, single occupant. I think the biggest one I've ever been on was two vehicles with three occupants, and we ended up having an AMR rig respond for the third PT.
 

emtd29

Forum Lieutenant
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TTLWHKR said:
Protocol here says to KED all the victims, as indicated...

WTF!?!?!


Who carries more than 1 KED on their rig?

Suppose you have six victims? Are you going to call for a mass-cas response, just to avoid using short boards, etc.?


My Dept has 2 in each truck plus 1 in the fly car for a total of 7
 

emtbass

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well i understand that the KED is the choice in this situation, but to tell you the truth I have NEVER used a KED, and have never seen one used except to stabilize a broken hip.
 

Jon

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emtbass said:
well i understand that the KED is the choice in this situation, but to tell you the truth I have NEVER used a KED, and have never seen one used except to stabilize a broken hip.
I've got to agree with this...

BUT... as I'm hoping to become an EMT preceptor at my squad, I've been careful to "watch my act" - I do standing takedowns, rather than "walk over and sit on the LSB on the strecher." I'm planning on working on the KED with my regular partners, in hopes of using it one day, just to show up everyone else... ;)
 

emtbuff

Forum Captain
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For us the reason why we have at least 2 backboards is most of our accidents seem to involve at least 2 people and we often times transport both pts in the same rig if we have 3 EMTS in the rig. I can't even tell you how many times we have taken an ambulance full of patients. Where there were a handful full of walking wounded and only a couple that needed to be backboarded. And we have been the only rig available. Hey when your a rural community you do what you have to.

As for the KED board we attempted to use it the other night but the patient was being very cooperative. with us.
 

squid

Forum Lieutenant
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This seems like a good thread in which to complain about KEDing.

MVA, other patient already removed, and that patient had no seat belt and had cracked the windshield. Not just starred, cracked.

This patient did not think she was seriously injured, had been ambulatory earlier, but unclear whether she was sober, or had been wearing a seat belt, and potential for serious injuries was there. It was below -15 C (0 F or so) and they had been there for about 40 minutes already since the accident.

The ambulance was not there yet but we had a rescue rig with a walk-in compartment that we sometimes keep patients in while waiting, since it's warm.

Would you have KEDded this patient, or pulled her out onto a long board and gotten her in the warm rig for treatment?
 

BrandoEMT

Forum Crew Member
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Ok, by what we've learned in class it says use the KED...if the pt isn't critical or evironmental concerns are not present let them sit and wait for you to take the time to use the KED. Otherwise just do a rapid if you need to get going. The medics may have done enough CMS tests and checked all extremities to determine whether or not to do full precautions. The KED is hardly used, most of the time the First Responders will put the pts in it before the Ambulance arrives...

B
 
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