question on eligibilty with military BCD

[tough_luck]

i wanted to become a emt but i have a bcd from the military due to being with the wrong people at that time. i currently work at walmart overnight and wanted to better myself. am i able to be an emt or should i just leave this subject? i was discharged in 2008. any help appreciated

 

[ffemt8978]

i wanted to become a emt but i have a bcd from the military due to being with the wrong people at that time. i currently work at walmart overnight and wanted to better myself. am i able to be an emt or should i just leave this subject? i was discharged in 2008. any help appreciated

It's going to vary by state as to whether or not your BCD disqualifies you from being an EMT. Your best bet would be to go to your state's website for EMS and see what they say are disqualifying conditions. Since the BCD can only be given at a Court Martial, it may be considered a criminal conviction that needs to be explained on your application. Again, your state Dept. of Health would be the best place to determine if this is the case.

In addition, even if you are eligible in your state, employers may not hire you because of it.

Given the current plethora of EMT's out there, it's not going to be easy for you. It's not impossible, but it's not probable.

 

[tough_luck]

It's going to vary by state as to whether or not your BCD disqualifies you from being an EMT. Your best bet would be to go to your state's website for EMS and see what they say are disqualifying conditions. Since the BCD can only be given at a Court Martial, it may be considered a criminal conviction that needs to be explained on your application. Again, your state Dept. of Health would be the best place to determine if this is the case.

In addition, even if you are eligible in your state, employers may not hire you because of it.

Given the current plethora of EMT's out there, it's not going to be easy for you. It's not impossible, but it's not probable.

thats the thing though, i never went to court or went to confinement. i was in tech school while this happened.i did get base punishment, reduced pay, reduce rank. unless given that punishment by the squadron commander can still give me that discharge, even though the disqualifications dont state military disqualification, do i still have to ask the health board for permission?

edit----
from the texas health

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/emstraumasystems/InitialApplication.pdf

(1) murder;
(2) capital murder;
(3) indecency with a child;
(4) aggravated kidnapping;
(5) aggravated sexual assault;
(6) aggravated robbery;
(7) substance abuse offenses, as described in Health and Safety Code,
(8) sexual assault;
(9) An offense, other than an offense committed on or after September 1, 2009, for which the person is subject
to register as a sex offender under Code of Criminal Procedure, Chapter 62.
Criminal offenses NOT LISTED ABOVE are subject to a department review which may lead to denial,
suspension, or revocation.

 

[ffemt8978]

Unless the UCMJ has changed since I was in, a BCD requires a Court Martial (either Special or General). Since a Court Martial is still a court, then their convictions are considered criminal convictions since the UCMJ is federal law.

Squadron commanders, base commanders, etc... can do adminstrative discharges via Non-Judicial Punishment with Honorable, General, or Other Than Honorable classifcations.

If you were in tech school, it may have been an Entry Level Separation if it happened in the first 6 months of your enlistment.

What does it say on your DD-214? Also, are you eligible for VA benefits or did you forfeit them?

 

[tough_luck]

Unless the UCMJ has changed since I was in, a BCD requires a Court Martial (either Special or General). Squadron commanders, base commanders, etc... can do adminstrative discharges via Non-Judicial Punishment with Honorable, General, or Other Than Honorable classifcations.

If you were in tech school, it may have been an Entry Level Separation if it happened in the first 6 months of your enlistment.

What does it say on your DD-214? Also, are you eligible for VA benefits or did you forfeit them?

i got discharged in 8 months, entered sept 27th 2007, left may 08, 2008, dd 214 stated at the bottom bcd, but at the top said something else, that threw me off guard, i had called dps and asked but they said it was a bcd, i will have to check again and make sure exactly what it states carefully, i believe i forfeited them, if it matters i received pell grant for financial aid, i put i wasnt receiving any help from the va, and i also got a letter from the texas rep henry cuellar that said dear veteran, i would like to welcome you to the college for the veterans day celebration. the college was hosting a celebration there, i was shocked when i got that letter

 

[JPINFV]

i also got a letter from the texas rep henry cuellar that said dear veteran, i would like to welcome you to the college for the veterans day celebration. the college was hosting a celebration there, i was shocked when i got that letter

Could always be a database error. I got a letter from the Navy reserve thanking me for my service and talking about how I can extend my benefits or something by joining them.

Oh, I've never been in the navy, but I know I'm on a few mailing lists through my school, even though I have no intent on doing HPSP.

 

[Sandog]

Your description of the situation sounds like an article 15 of the UCMJ, yet you do not get a BCD from NJP article 15, so you must be leaving out some details. At any rate, a BCD will haunt you for a long time, you will have a hill to climb, but I think we all can redeem ourselves. You will have a challenge.

 

[clibb]

Could always be a database error. I got a letter from the Navy reserve thanking me for my service and talking about how I can extend my benefits or something by joining them.

Oh, I've never been in the navy, but I know I'm on a few mailing lists through my school, even though I have no intent on doing HPSP.

I just got sent a parking ticket from the University of Iowa. I've never been to Iowa...

 

[catatonic]

In my opinion good luck. With public safety professions especially. Anything less then Honorable will hurt you. Personally, I would find the reason for the BCD and see if it can be changed.

 

[Phlipper]

An Administrative Discharge is generally not an issue in civilian life, even an OTH, especially if it was a long time ago. But the Big Chicken Dinner or Dishonorable can really screw you. Yours was relatively recent, too. You can probably get certified by the state but employers will take a hard look at the discharge. You will likely have to build a solid rep with a volley station before personal recommendations and time will get you an interview.

But if you want it bad enough, anything is possible.

 

[Flight-LP]

Considering the nationwide market saturation of EMT-B's being significantly less than any discernable amount of demand, your Bad Conduct Discharge does significantly reduce your chances of employment as a competitive applicant. Personally, as a manager, I would not consider your application on that basis.

Would TDSHS allow you to become certified? Possibly, however only the folks in austin can accurately discuss your options.

 

[Flight-LP]

Personally, I would find the reason for the BCD and see if it can be changed.

Why?

I am certain the judgement that lead to the discharge was justified. BCD's are not just handed out for the factor of convenience. An action or series of actions were performed that did not meet the standards. As such, a discharge was ordered. Why change the outcome instead of focusing on the deficient behavior or actions? It's called accountability, something EMS is sorely lacking already, no need to add to it.

 

[ffemt8978]

The thing to remember about this is that we haven't heard both sides of the story...matter of fact, we haven't even heard one side of the story.

There are too many inconsistencies in the OP's original post for us to be of any material assistance, but I certainly understand if the OP doesn't want to air his dirty laundry in a public forum.

Would TDSHS allow you to become certified? Possibly, however only the folks in austin can accurately discuss your options.

Yep, with the added caveat that the OP better tell the whole story to them if he wants an answer.

 

[ffemt8978]

thats the thing though, i never went to court or went to confinement. i was in tech school while this happened.i did get base punishment, reduced pay, reduce rank. unless given that punishment by the squadron commander can still give me that discharge, even though the disqualifications dont state military disqualification, do i still have to ask the health board for permission?

edit----
from the texas health

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/emstraumasystems/InitialApplication.pdf

(1) murder;
(2) capital murder;
(3) indecency with a child;
(4) aggravated kidnapping;
(5) aggravated sexual assault;
(6) aggravated robbery;
(7) substance abuse offenses, as described in Health and Safety Code,
(8) sexual assault;
(9) An offense, other than an offense committed on or after September 1, 2009, for which the person is subject
to register as a sex offender under Code of Criminal Procedure, Chapter 62.
Criminal offenses NOT LISTED ABOVE are subject to a department review which may lead to denial,
suspension, or revocation.

If you truly got a BCD, then that means you were convicted by a Court Martial (because only a Court Martial can give out a BCD or a Dishonorable Discharge ref: Military Discharges) of a criminal offense because the UCMJ is federal law 10USC47.

i got discharged in 8 months, entered sept 27th 2007, left may 08, 2008, dd 214 stated at the bottom bcd, but at the top said something else, that threw me off guard, i had called dps and asked but they said it was a bcd, i will have to check again and make sure exactly what it states carefully, i believe i forfeited them, if it matters i received pell grant for financial aid, i put i wasnt receiving any help from the va, and i also got a letter from the texas rep henry cuellar that said dear veteran, i would like to welcome you to the college for the veterans day celebration. the college was hosting a celebration there, i was shocked when i got that letter

There's several conflicting points here. An administrative discharge does not forfeit your VA benefits, whereas a BCD or DD does. The letter from your rep means nothing, since it was most likely a form letter sent out to all recently discharged veterans in his district.

Best advice I can give would be to contact the VA and see what they say first.

 

[HotelCo]

You can always appeal to get it to OTH, or maybe, even General.

Not saying it will happen, but it's possible.

 

[catatonic]

Why?

I am certain the judgement that lead to the discharge was justified. BCD's are not just handed out for the factor of convenience. An action or series of actions were performed that did not meet the standards. As such, a discharge was ordered. Why change the outcome instead of focusing on the deficient behavior or actions? It's called accountability, something EMS is sorely lacking already, no need to add to it.

How do you know it was justified? For his benefit, I would see what exactly the reasoning is and go from there. I have seen a BCD for something like taking a cell phone during non use hours in IET. Even if it was changed it would most likely be a general, which isn't all that great. Even with a general he's still held accountable for his actions, there's just no way of knowing if it's justified without seeing the reasoning behind it.

 

[Flight-LP]

How do you know it was justified? For his benefit, I would see what exactly the reasoning is and go from there. I have seen a BCD for something like taking a cell phone during non use hours in IET. Even if it was changed it would most likely be a general, which isn't all that great. Even with a general he's still held accountable for his actions, there's just no way of knowing if it's justified without seeing the reasoning behind it.

So what you are saying is violating a regulation that is a known offense. It is really simple in the military, they say, you do. There is no room for personal interpretation and it is mandated that way for a specific and successful purpose. That is the very nature of military service. It sickens me to see so many younger Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and (on the rare occasion) Marines who feel they can just do what they believe is best for their personal agenda and fail to meet the standards of service that provides them the very freedom they enjoy today. Argue it if you wish, but the level of discipline and true dedication to honor is far less than years past.

 

[catatonic]

So what you are saying is violating a regulation that is a known offense. It is really simple in the military, they say, you do. There is no room for personal interpretation and it is mandated that way for a specific and successful purpose. That is the very nature of military service. It sickens me to see so many younger Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and (on the rare occasion) Marines who feel they can just do what they believe is best for their personal agenda and fail to meet the standards of service that provides them the very freedom they enjoy today. Argue it if you wish, but the level of discipline and true dedication to honor is far less than years past.

I see some favoritism in your branch choice <_< (Which I believe the USMC has just as many s***bags come through as any other branch)
No need to argue, at all. I fully believe that anyone who violates the UCMJ and/or regulations should be held accountable. The only reason I suggested attempting to get it changed is for his personal benefit for the rest of his life. I honestly don't believe that every punishment in the military is deserved, just as not every punishment in civilian life is deserved. Even the military's system has flaws. Obviously he has not met the standards, which he was punished for (at least with bad paper and not being able to serve). However, you nor I know the conditions under which it happened.
I agree that members of the US Military should be held to a higher standard then the normal civilian population. I am not trying to get him out of any type of punishment, just some suggestions to try and get him in the field he wants.
The level of discipline and dedication to honor hasn't changed for the majority of people who want to serve and adopt to the military lifestyle. There will always be bad apples... Be it in EMS, Fire, Police, Military, Burger King, etc.

 

[bstone]

So what you are saying is violating a regulation that is a known offense. It is really simple in the military, they say, you do. There is no room for personal interpretation and it is mandated that way for a specific and successful purpose. That is the very nature of military service. It sickens me to see so many younger Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and (on the rare occasion) Marines who feel they can just do what they believe is best for their personal agenda and fail to meet the standards of service that provides them the very freedom they enjoy today. Argue it if you wish, but the level of discipline and true dedication to honor is far less than years past.

Agreed. If you don't want to do that they say then you shouldn't have joined in the first place.

 

[Flight-LP]

I see some favoritism in your branch choice <_< (Which I believe the USMC has just as many s***bags come through as any other branch)
No need to argue, at all. I fully believe that anyone who violates the UCMJ and/or regulations should be held accountable. The only reason I suggested attempting to get it changed is for his personal benefit for the rest of his life. I honestly don't believe that every punishment in the military is deserved, just as not every punishment in civilian life is deserved. Even the military's system has flaws. Obviously he has not met the standards, which he was punished for (at least with bad paper and not being able to serve). However, you nor I know the conditions under which it happened.
I agree that members of the US Military should be held to a higher standard then the normal civilian population. I am not trying to get him out of any type of punishment, just some suggestions to try and get him in the field he wants.
The level of discipline and dedication to honor hasn't changed for the majority of people who want to serve and adopt to the military lifestyle. There will always be bad apples... Be it in EMS, Fire, Police, Military, Burger King, etc.

You perceived incorrectly, I hold no favoritism towards the Corps. Bad apples shouldn't be in any of the services, unfortunately too many people cry fowl when any attempt at weeding out people is made. Heaven forbid we tell any precious young person that they just don't cut it. The problem lies in the fact that our younger society today has not been adequately prepared for the challenge called life. Too much emphasis is placed on blaming others and seeking retribution instead of instilling core fundementals that were taught to previous generations that actually made them more productive and ethical citizens.

His personal benefit is the irrelevent aspect I speak of. Again, he should not get the opportunity to improve or benefit from his violation of military law. Period.

The problem with holding servicemembers to a higher standard is that the new higher standard is a common standard that everyone in society should already hold. Collectively, we are lowering the bar as a whole society, just as we are in EMS. Yet few folks actually grasp that concept.