Question about PPE?

[guaritore]

First of all i would like to introduce myself and say thank you to all of you who have been long time members of the EMS community. You have been my inspiration since a young age to pursue this career.

Now for my first post here i have a question about some PPE.

I recently completed my EMT-Basic and am taking a year or two to gain some experience before i continue my education to become a Paramedic. I've had volunteer experience in Fire/EMS since i was 15 and an explorer (in my 20's now).

However, i had a question about the use of bullet/stab proof vests while in the field. Assuming that an employer supports/condones the use of such equipment while in the field (if its personal equipment) I was looking at possibly purchasing (in the future/not right now as i am new) said equipment. Specifically i was looking at this particular vest:

theemsstore(dotcom)/store/product.aspx/productId/1065/Point-Blank-R20-D-EMS-Accessory-Carrier-with-Level-II-Ballistics/

What im looking for is some opinions on this particular item and maybe some suggestions (not too costly) of some other's i could look at.

Now what i really wanna know is as a BLS provider in an area with a higher crime rate... Is something like this practical? I like the idea of having a carrier/vest instead of having a portable attached to a belt and keeping BP cuffs, scissors, a tourniquet, and other supplies in hip pockets but would it be foolish to have such a thing? I don't believe in EMT's carrying weapons (taser's, knifes, ETC) especially with out proper training as i think our public image is to provide care not to intimidate or induce more harm in any way. So let me know what you think?

-Cheers

 

[NYMedic828]

Welcome to EMTLife


Couple things to note here:

1: Don't wait to get your paramedic. Unless there is an experience requirement, do it now. You are only slowing down your future.

2: Bulletproof vests are very uncomfortable to wear all day sitting in an ambulance. If you must have one, get one that goes over your uniform so that you may take it off when sitting around.

3: I have a bulletproof vest issued to me by my employer and working in Harlem/Bronx I haven't worn it once in 4 years. The only people I know who wear it will tell you its for their protection but the real reason is because they want to think they are police officers. They usually carry other obnoxious gadgets on their belt like a baton/knife/OC spray

4: You will probably get made fun of for dressing like a "buff" by the senior guys.


In the end, it could certainly enhance your safety but is it really that practical go to spend $600 on? A vest that will enhance your safety more and only cost $25 would be a reflective traffic vest. You are about 1000x more likely to be hit by a vehicle on a roadway than you are to get shot.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

Scene Safety:

If theres bullets flyin im sitting in the ambulance, down the block. no need for a vest.

 

[Christopher]

First of all i would like to introduce myself and say thank you to all of you who have been long time members of the EMS community. You have been my inspiration since a young age to pursue this career.

Now for my first post here i have a question about some PPE.

I recently completed my EMT-Basic and am taking a year or two to gain some experience before i continue my education to become a Paramedic. I've had volunteer experience in Fire/EMS since i was 15 and an explorer (in my 20's now).

However, i had a question about the use of bullet/stab proof vests while in the field. Assuming that an employer supports/condones the use of such equipment while in the field (if its personal equipment) I was looking at possibly purchasing (in the future/not right now as i am new) said equipment. Specifically i was looking at this particular vest:

theemsstore(dotcom)/store/product.aspx/productId/1065/Point-Blank-R20-D-EMS-Accessory-Carrier-with-Level-II-Ballistics/

What im looking for is some opinions on this particular item and maybe some suggestions (not too costly) of some other's i could look at.

Now what i really wanna know is as a BLS provider in an area with a higher crime rate... Is something like this practical? I like the idea of having a carrier/vest instead of having a portable attached to a belt and keeping BP cuffs, scissors, a tourniquet, and other supplies in hip pockets but would it be foolish to have such a thing? I don't believe in EMT's carrying weapons (taser's, knifes, ETC) especially with out proper training as i think our public image is to provide care not to intimidate or induce more harm in any way. So let me know what you think?

-Cheers

Spend the money on a helmet to wear. You will die in an ambulance wreck.

 

[guaritore]

To NYMedic828

Thanks i really appreciate your input and i agree it does come off as trying to "look like a cop" and i figured i'd get :censored::censored::censored::censored: about it all the time. I've had some friends down in your area that work for some private providers who've told me bout some close calls they've had. They said they wear their vests (under their BDU's) since. They're my age though, relatively new to EMS, and could be exaggerating. Regardless i've been an advocate for hi-vis vests since i was in my teens especially after one of our rigs was slammed on the highway. I get teased for it all the time but i put mine over my turnout gear every time we are working on a roadway. Just makes sense and think its good habit to be safe minded at all times especially in this field of work and in turn, is one of the reasons why i was wondering about the b/s-proof vests. Down the road ill keep in mind that having one for over-the-uniform use is key.

As far as the paramedic side goes i'm a bit worried about taking on that much training and responsibility being fresh to this side of the emergency services. I guess i just wanted to have some basic field knowledge and experience before i undertake something that requires that level of care. Now im no expert and honestly i can't criticize medics in my area with much to back my opinion... but a lot of them seem to have issues with patient priorities and care in general. A lot of them were guys just like me and honestly i wanna feel confident in my ability to provide care at least on the BLS level. I just don't see myself being a volly EMT for a summer then by next being a medic looking for work and providing ALS care. I've got dreams of being a flight medic or doing wilderness work but i want to have the resume that says "he's been a emt in the professional sector for a couple of years now"

Anyways,

Stay safe and happy holiday's

 

[Sublime]

To NYMedic828

I just don't see myself being a volly EMT for a summer then by next being a medic looking for work and providing ALS care."

Why not?

When you go through medic school you will have plenty of opportunity in clinicals to practice and learn before being sent out on the field on your own. Even then.. when you join a new service (regardless of EMT-B experience or not), when you're a new medic you will most likely work as a "secondary" paramedic for a while anyways. Like NYMedic said... you're just slowing yourself down.

 

[VFlutter]

Spend the money on a helmet to wear. You will die in an ambulance wreck.

I still have a few helmets sitting in my closet from my drifting days. Ill slap a star of life on them and sell them for double.

 

[guaritore]

Why not?

When you go through medic school you will have plenty of opportunity in clinicals to practice and learn before being sent out on the field on your own. Even then.. when you join a new service (regardless of EMT-B experience or not), when you're a new medic you will most likely work as a "secondary" paramedic for a while anyways. Like NYMedic said... you're just slowing yourself down.

I'm staying enrolled for now. Ill keep that in mind though. I'm sure companies are more likely to take a good look at employing me as EMT-B if i mention im in a Paramedic program at college. I kinda foolishly assumed I was going to be thrown in with a EMT-B on a rig right away after clinical's and such.

 

[NYMedic828]

As far as the paramedic side goes i'm a bit worried about taking on that much training and responsibility being fresh to this side of the emergency services. I guess i just wanted to have some basic field knowledge and experience before i undertake something that requires that level of care. Now im no expert and honestly i can't criticize medics in my area with much to back my opinion... but a lot of them seem to have issues with patient priorities and care in general. A lot of them were guys just like me and honestly i wanna feel confident in my ability to provide care at least on the BLS level. I just don't see myself being a volly EMT for a summer then by next being a medic looking for work and providing ALS care. I've got dreams of being a flight medic or doing wilderness work but i want to have the resume that says "he's been a emt in the professional sector for a couple of years now"

Thats why clinical rotations are part of any healthcare program be it medic, nursing, PA or MD.

Don't wait... You will regret it in the end.

 

[Tigger]

Now what i really wanna know is as a BLS provider in an area with a higher crime rate... Is something like this practical? I like the idea of having a carrier/vest instead of having a portable attached to a belt and keeping BP cuffs, scissors, a tourniquet, and other supplies in hip pockets but would it be foolish to have such a thing? I don't believe in EMT's carrying weapons (taser's, knifes, ETC) especially with out proper training as i think our public image is to provide care not to intimidate or induce more harm in any way. So let me know what you think?

-Cheers

I can't imagine wearing a carrier type vest everyday while out on the truck will go over too well, especially if you load it up with all sorts of equipment. Remember, those heavy bags you carry around have all the stuff you'll ever need on scene, and if having the equipment on your body and not the bag is "where seconds are saved," well that patient is dead anyway.

 

[mycrofft]

Any PPE you buy and you get hurt or sick, your employer will disavow unless they require you to get it and list types or parameters then CERTIFY IN WRITING it meets them. Use theirs unless it is really useless, then ask about upgrades. If they say no, start job hunting, they will screw you other ways too.
This goes for masks, gloves, goggles too.

 

[NomadicMedic]

We've all been issued ballistic vests with an over carrier. We're told to "consider" wearing them on any police action or any instance where we are told to stage. They are not mandatory and it seems as though the admin is hedging their bets in the event something happens.

Now, if a medic is assaulted, while not wearing a vest, I foresee an SOP change requiring them as standard duty uniform.

 

[DrParasite]

1: Don't wait to get your paramedic. Unless there is an experience requirement, do it now. You are only slowing down your future.

says the man who is counting the days until he can become a firefighter, and never has to work on an ALS ambulance ever again. and being a medic isn't a requirement for his career path. sorry, just wanted to to throw that out there.

2: Bulletproof vests are very uncomfortable to wear all day sitting in an ambulance. If you must have one, get one that goes over your uniform so that you may take it off when sitting around.

this is 100% true, they are very uncomfortable, especially in the summer. Just ask any cop. but they don't take their off when they are outside of the station. probably a reason for that. and you shouldn't be entering unsafe scenes just because you have a vest; let PD secure them first.

3: I have a bulletproof vest issued to me by my employer and working in Harlem/Bronx I haven't worn it once in 4 years. The only people I know who wear it will tell you its for their protection but the real reason is because they want to think they are police officers. They usually carry other obnoxious gadgets on their belt like a baton/knife/OC spray

I disagree. I'd rather have a vest and never need it to save my life than not be wearing my issued vest and end up in the trauma center with an injury that could have been prevented had i been wearing it. But that's if one was issued to me.

4: You will probably get made fun of for dressing like a "buff" by the senior guys.

ehhhh, probably. but it is your life, not there, and if you can't tolerate being made fun of, is this really the career for you?

In the end, it could certainly enhance your safety but is it really that practical go to spend $600 on? A vest that will enhance your safety more and only cost $25 would be a reflective traffic vest. You are about 1000x more likely to be hit by a vehicle on a roadway than you are to get shot.

very true. in fact, most agencies should issue traffic vets with your standard EMS uniform.

Any PPE you buy and you get hurt or sick, your employer will disavow unless they require you to get it and list types or parameters then CERTIFY IN WRITING it meets them. Use theirs unless it is really useless, then ask about upgrades. If they say no, start job hunting, they will screw you other ways too.
This goes for masks, gloves, goggles too.

great advice, for anyone who uses their personal equipment instead of issued stuff.

If it isn't issued to you, than your admin doesn't think you need it. if you still want to get it (and I do have quite a bit of personal PPE, helmets, rescue gloves, safety glasses, along with winter gear), go for it, but remember it's on you if you get hurt while wearing it. but it can also prevent injury.

If you do get a vest, I would wear it just like the cops do: on every call, once you leave the station until the time you get back at the end of your shift. Never know when something will go down hill, or when a "routine" call will turn into something that results in you getting hurt. but again, that's my opinion only, and everyone's opinion can be different.

 

[NYMedic828]

says the man who is counting the days until he can become a firefighter, and never has to work on an ALS ambulance ever again. and being a medic isn't a requirement for his career path. sorry, just wanted to to throw that out there.

I also got paid $30,000 to sit for my medic class. Being in EMS was a requirement of my career path.

Furthermore I work for other EMS agencies who only hire paramedics and volunteer on the little time I have left.

Paramedic is also a requirement of my Medic to RN bridge program.

And it's 25 days to be exact.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

I have one that's issued by one of my departments. I'd say one out of 4 or 5 days I'm on do I wear it. Our policy here is for assaults, stabbings, shootings, attempts, and unknown emergencies to wear them. Basically anything we stage for. It's purpose is just as a last ditch effort if the stuff hits the fan.

My vest has saved my butt exactly once--when a moron idiot (whom I no longer refer to as "partner") decided to go 60 through a red light and hit the breaks sending me into the corner of a cabinet. I didn't break any ribs because I had my vest on! Though I was very sore the next day all over my torso.

 

[Aprz]

Just because not wearing a vest has worked for me so far doesn't mean that it works for everyone else. Maybe one day I will wish I had it? Who knows. I regularly post and work in a city that is consistently listed as one of the most dangerous in the United States. I work in IFT though, my scene is usually safe. I just have to worry about posting. I had a friend who worked for the 911 agency as an EMT, and while staging for an assault call (in the same city), a gang walked by his ambulance, gave him the "stink eye", pulled out their guns in front of the ambulance, and shot into it. Nobody was injured.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Don't wait... You will regret it in the end.

What he said.

As far as the vest goes, if it makes you feel better then by all means, go for it.

I work in a relatively violent city. Not nearly as bad as the bronx but we have shootings and stabbings every day. I've been assaulted while at work on a few occasions but never once have I felt the need for a vest.

I was arguing with someone about this in a thread a long while ago and brought up staging and they made the point that dispatch doesn't always get the proper information from the RP which would trigger them to stage us. Always have your head on a swivel, know your routes of egress and never box yourself in. Situational awareness is key. If it doesn't seem/feel/look/smell right then it probably isn't and you should be on your way out the door calling for PD backup. Take the patient if you can, if not, sorry my and my partner's safety comes first.

 

[mycrofft]

I have one that's issued by one of my departments. I'd say one out of 4 or 5 days I'm on do I wear it. Our policy here is for assaults, stabbings, shootings, attempts, and unknown emergencies to wear them. Basically anything we stage for. It's purpose is just as a last ditch effort if the stuff hits the fan.

My vest has saved my butt exactly once--when a moron idiot (whom I no longer refer to as "partner") decided to go 60 through a red light and hit the breaks sending me into the corner of a cabinet. I didn't break any ribs because I had my vest on! Though I was very sore the next day all over my torso.

That is what we call a datum.
Make manufacturers leave off sharp corners. Require crew to wear code 3 suits (that'll decrease their frequency).