Personalities... Thick skin.

[Cody1911]

Hey everybody. I wasn't quite sure where to post this... So I thought I would go here. I a volunteer firefighter again since moving back into the city limits. The people I work around are very nice. I have known them for 4 years or so.

I ran on a call today where a female fell and we were notified to stage. I have a pager so I respond to calls. I could of course be at the station and go in the trucks too. I just like to help out whenever I can. I thought I would respond to two calls this morning. I arrived late on both of them. Safety comes first, and I am not going to be hauling it to calls. I am not qualified and I know better. Most people seem happy I show up on calls, or are generally nice. I had an incident this morning though on the lady who fell. After the call the captain (Who is a tad moody) In front of everyone in a very raised irritated voice said "You find a job yet?" This was the second call of the morning I went on. This bothered me a bit because I am trying very hard to find a job. She also did this in front of the patient. I politely said no I am still looking... I am not an EMT yet but I very familiar with medical equipment and have probably ran way over 200 calls or so. I started doing ride along's at 16 years old. I started volunteering when I was 18. I am now 22.

Anyway... I have noticed every time I go on a call she gives me a very evil eye. I do not understand... I am there to help. I do not get in the way, and I am very good at taking the notes for the full time guys and the ambulance crew. They can actually read my handwriting. I assist in traumas... etc. I am not much into the fire stuff but I am all over the EMS. I can't wait for EMT school to roll around. I want to get on for an ambulance.

It got me thinking though... Why is she so irritated every time I show up on a call? I realize I don't have a job. I have really been trying. I ran on a trauma once and she told me to go get a blanket. Once she realized it was me who she was talking to she waved her hand at me like "forget it" Like I am useless.

Have any of you ever gone through this? She shows up on every call and treats me like garbage. I stay very professional. Is it because I haven't found a job yet and I am showing up on to many calls? Or is it because I am not EMT certified? Half the people who show up aren't EMT certified...

I also noticed at the station she couldn't get my email right. I must have told her ten times my email address and spelt it out for her even and she kept getting it wrong. She was raising her voice at me and I was being extremely nice. She did the long "sighhhhhh" Every time she kept getting it wrong. I thought my god... If this is such a pain for you how about I do it? It's typing in emails... I would be more than happy to do that. I didn't say that of course...

My problem is now I am worried to show up on any calls. I just want to help...

Do you guys have any suggestions you can toss me? My pager is off because of this. She rips me on every call I go on for absolutely nothing. Everybody else says she is very grouchy... It doesn't make the scene any easier that is for sure. How do you deal with people like that on scenes? I need to work on getting thicker skin too I suppose.

I hope you are all well.

 

[RocketMedic]

This is exactly why volunteers are looked at with such...controversy.

Cody, this is petty stuff, but it should motivate you to earn your EMT (and possibly beyond) and work for pay.

From another perspective, what exactly do you bring to a scene?

 

[abckidsmom]

This is exactly why volunteers are looked at with such...controversy.

Cody, this is petty stuff, but it should motivate you to earn your EMT (and possibly beyond) and work for pay.

From another perspective, what exactly do you bring to a scene?

What he said. And I don't really need anyone to write down info about my patient. For the most part. My partner and I have it under control and other people generally upset the balance we have worked out.

 

[Household6]

I'm curious, if you're a FF, why do you respond to medical calls? Do you have any medical certs?

 

[mycrofft]

This is petty stuff but my experience was that the petty stuff like not sending you emails because she can't get your address right will cut you off at the knees.

You might ask her, say "I feel I'm not doing my part here, can you give me some feedback?". I know it isn't in accordance with your feelings, but if you want her to talk you need to accommodate her mindset.

What you may hear could be hurtful, but it can also contain kernels of truth. Ask about how to overcome these barriers.

If she just throws up her hands in exasperation, or says "I just don't know", get out. Let her paddle in her own little pond and you go live a happier and productive life. Don't burn any bridges, she might be fired or resign or have electroconvulsive therapy someday and you might want to come back, but you know what? You probably will have grown past that by then. Just write a polite letter of resignation to her boss stating that you have insurmountable interpersonal issues with her, no particulars, and move on.

PS: The whole "thick skin" thing? It's up to you do decide how thick a skin you want or need. When someone slams you and says "Aw, you need a thicker skin than that", it can be bullying, and you need to decide if it is worth it to toughen up, or leave them at their own level and move on. (toughening up is good , but a bully will keep escalating it, whereas someone who is genuinely concerned will accept you eventually).

PS: for now, quit showing up at medical calls?

 

[chaz90]

Problem is, not much additional help is typically required at medical calls. Most can be handled with two providers, and if more are needed, they can be called. This situation partly stems from the way it sounds like your system is set up. If the on-duty crew is already responding (and on scene in this case), volunteers really shouldn't be responding in addition. This applies to those with medical certs too. It does sound like you're genuinely enthusiastic about helping and contributing, but do it the right way. Wait until you finish some classes, and go to calls only when requested or dispatched. With a little more experience, you may begin to understand the Captain's perspective.

 

[Tigger]

I don't think your captain handled this is in an especially professional manner, however I do see where she is coming from.

If you do not have any medical training, you are not providing much help. Yes you may be doing things on scene, but a crew of two can run the majority of all EMS calls. If I really need extra help I can ask a bystander for a hand or call for backup. But I don't need preemptive help. I know you are trying to do right and your heart is in the right place, but having someone untrained on scene trying to assist gets in the way frequently since frankly it's faster for me to just do things myself than to instruct someone else how to do it.

Even if you were an EMT there still isn't much reason to self dispatch to calls.

 

[Cody1911]

Thank you all so much for the replies. This just motivates me even more to get my EMT cert. I don't know if the Dept is structured different than others but she is a Volunteer as well. She is ranked captain on the volunteer side though. She is also an EMT.

I think I will hold off on the calls... During my interview I was told I must run at least 60 calls a year to stay on as a volunteer, but during the monthly meetings there's people who show up that only show up on the one structure fire we get that year. 90% of the calls are EMS where I volunteer. Usually what I do on calls is write down the blood pressure, their pulse rate, medical history, allergies, onset, if the pain radiates... (If they have pain) that kind of thing. We have these slips that we fill out and then hand to the ambulance crew when they arrive. Usually the full time medic is diagnosing/asking questions or doing ALS. The Full time EMT is always taking vitals and I write down the info for them as they do the vitals.

That's really my role on scene but there are times where I feel like I am not doing anything. Makes perfect sense from your replies too! I can now see where she is coming from. I guess I just wish she could have told me in a more... professional manner.

I think for now I am going to lay off the calls, but still go to the training's they put out. Especially the medical stuff since EMT school will be starting here before too long.

I really appreciate it everyone. :- )
-Cody

 

[MediMike]

I think she sounds like a twit with a chip on her shoulder for some reason. If you get in the way or are interrupting then I understand the issue, but it doesn't sound like you do that. We have a large volunteer population in my region, and while it can be a little frustrating to have 5 people crowded into a small room, they are all very receptive to being asked to step out.

I've always looked at it as people with experience in the field have a responsibility to bring the new folks up, while this isn't true for everyone, it's a hell of a lot better idea than eating our young like a large chunk of this profession does. Get your cert and figure it out from there.

Or maybe she has a crush on you...has she pushed you on the playground recently?

 

[AzValley]

Life is full with miserable people and you just need to steer clear of them.

 

[Cody1911]

Thank you everyone. :- )

Medimike & Trashtruck - I needed that laugh!

It's a little complicated on the volunteer side. Our chief for example is a volunteer... but outside the city limits he is a full time paid fire chief for a population of about 700,000. He's a good guy. Each side has ranks. For example... On the full time part of it there are Captains, Lieutenants, etc. Then on the Volunteer side it's the same thing. You get higher ranked the longer you are with the dept.

The captain I was referring to has been there since I was in elementary school... I seriously remember she would come to my school and help with the fire drills and all of that. She's on the volunteer side. She literally shows up on every call. She is also part time too.

What I don't understand is the full time guys really enjoy me. When I do show up on calls they give me a smile and it seems like they are happy I showed up. I even got a pat on the back and a thumbs up on a call I went on the first day I got back on the dept by one of the full time guys. A lady 4 houses down from me fell and hit her head. She was in very bad shape. I held her neck still while the full time guys helped get her on the board etc.

Whenever I show up at the station the full time crew is always very nice and offer me dinner or what not. It's just this one lady... and her rank is very high. She sat in on my interview. I told them all I was most interested in the EMS side of things. I am claustrophobic and putting on the SCBA's is very hard for me. My main goal is to get on for the ambulance company. I knew the fire dept runs EMS calls too so I wanted to volunteer while I got my EMT to learn and all of that.

All of the police officers know me very well (not in a bad way) in a friendly way and always are glad I showed up too.

I don't know what it is really with her... I thought it was just me but apparently she is very mean in general. Aw well... I got my EMT book early and am already reading up in it. I did a little quiz and got a 96% in basic anatomy at the station so that was cool. I will definitely have a lot of knowledge going into EMT school. I been wanting to do this since I was 18.

Again, thanks for all your replies everyone. It helped me out a bunch.

 

[Eddie2170]

I'll bite

I started out about the same way, I joined my local Ambulance after being on the Fire Dept for a few years, (mostly to get my EMT to help become a career firefighter, but I do enjoy EMS in itself, I do it as a job, wouldn't as a career, but anyway) and of course started out as support. I had basic first aid as well as cpr but in terms of a scene pretty limited in my help. I was the gopher for equipment and such, but I got to learn and do a little hands on. My very first call I went on I learned how to take a pulse, blood pressure, and vitals on a real pt, (we're a local volly EMS service and both I and the EMT in charge knew the pt personally but regardless) I had joined an already seasoned crew that was used to working without me and immediately was brought in and allowed to both help and learn. If I was looked at as a hindrance rather than part of the team I don't know If I would have continued into EMS and gotten my EMT or just gotten out of it.

I try and continue this now as a paid EMT. In another local agency I am a paid on call EMT, but I have volunteer drivers and occasionally a volunteer EMT or Support member on board. If they are willing to learn and participate and try and help me, I want them to be part of the team. Obviously by knowing them I know what theyre capable of, so while Im filling out the PCR I can ask some of them to take a second set of vitals or call the hospital and give a report, whatever the case may be, but that's me.

As far as your situation, especially planning on getting your EMT, it's time to learn as much as possible and be ahead of the game in your EMT class. I know I was much better off being able to take vitals, have an idea on doing an assessment, etc. before I went into my EMT class. If you ask what you can do or ask if you can do something, especially something youve practiced before (by no means am I saying learn on a pt in an emergency setting) or at least attempting to help may show your Captain that youre there to help rather than just 'be in the way', then you might be able to better your situation. Especially when youre back at the building/station ask what you can do or ask to learn something, then that might show that you do have an interest and you may see a change.

Just my 2cents

 

[Chief Complaint]

Don't take this the wrong way, but despite her attitude toward you, I understand her reasoning. You showing up on scene is equivalent to a bystander attempting to help with a call.

You do not have the proper training/certifications, and equally as important, you were not dispatched to the call. You were notified via pager of the call but your dispatch center did not add you to the call. This is often called "squirreling".

If you were needed on the call you would be dispatched to it.

While your efforts to help out are in good faith, they are often viewed as "stepping on toes" of the providers who were dispatched. Its just one of those things that may not make sense right now, but you will understand once you are a released provider working in the field.

 

[MMiz]

I'm also confused as to why you're responding to medical calls with no formal medical training. It sounds like you're a good guy that wants to help. Get your EMT training and help. Better yet, get your Pramedic license and do what you seem to really enjoy full time.

 

[DrParasite]

Don't take this the wrong way, but despite her attitude toward you, I understand her reasoning. You showing up on scene is equivalent to a bystander attempting to help with a call.

I will admit, I am the exact same way.

if you (as a newbie) want to come on the ambulance with me, help with checking the truck, etc, you are more than welcome. but I don't need an untrained person responding to the scene. I don't want a non-EMT in their personal vehicle on my scene.

I have thrown First Aiders off MVA scenes, when they arrived in their personal vehicles. You want to help out? go to the station and staff an ambulance. I know you want to help out, but if you are freelancing on my scene, than you are more of a liability than a help, and believe me, if I need help, I have no problem calling for it.

Get your EMT, and get some experience on the ambulance. Once you get those two things, than you can think about responding directly to the scene.

 

[Aidey]

How have you been volunteering for 4 years and aren't either an EMT or FF?

 

[Cody1911]

How have you been volunteering for 4 years and aren't either an EMT or FF?

I never really knew what I wanted to do until a year ago. I love EMS. There are people on the dept who have no certs at all. The thing with me is I went the Law enforcement route at 21 and decided that was not for me. I wasn't aloud to get out of the trucks until I was 18. So for two years I was working full time and I never really decided what I wanted to do. I may have said that wrong... The fire dept has known me for well over 4 years but there have been times where I had to resign. Like moving out of the city etc... I would still go visit them and say hi but I was never an official volunteer until I was 18. They taught me a lot at the station... I ran many calls. They know my passion for it, but at the time I was doing PD ride along's as well.

I think EMS fits my personality type a lot better... That's the thing I could never make up my mind on what I wanted to do. So I wasted a lot of time in between which I regret.

There are people who show up on calls who have no certs at all. I got my CPR, and basic first aid... but I have been on so many calls I have been allowed to do vitals and I am so familiar with the equipment I can administer oxygen etc. They would take me down in the bay area and showed me how everything worked. They said if we responded on a intoxicated party I could do some basic vitals etc. So I am familiar with that stuff. Medical terminology... Talking to the ambulance crew etc.

I regret lagging though and not getting my EMT earlier. I was young and didn't quite know what I wanted to go for. The captain on the full time side went to school with my mom and I know them all very well. They teach me a lot and trust me. Quite a bit of policies have changed though. The chief is hammering me to get my EMT as soon as possible so I can start doing EMS stuff. It starts in September. I got me a job today too so it's going good so far.

 

[VFlutter]

I got my CPR, and basic first aid... but I have been on so many calls I have been allowed to do vitals and I am so familiar with the equipment I can administer oxygen etc. They would take me down in the bay area and showed me how everything worked. They said if we responded on a intoxicated party I could do some basic vitals etc. So I am familiar with that stuff. Medical terminology... Talking to the ambulance crew etc.

Ya about that... Oxygen is a medication. No matter how many calls you have been on it does not qualify you to administer medication without the appropriate medical training. It may not sound like a big deal but it can get you and those you work with in trouble. No offense to you personally but there is absolutely no way I am allowing an unqualified person take vitals on a medical call, but I rarely trust anyone to take vitals for me. I hope they recheck the vitals themselves before making any treatment decisions.

This is not meant to be harsh. I know you are excited and want to learn but you really should be careful until you are actually an EMT. I do not blame the person for being leery of having you on scene. There are two sides to every story, is it possible you may overstep your bounds and think you know more than you actually do?

 

[Cody1911]

Ya about that... Oxygen is a medication. No matter how many calls you have been on it does not qualify you to administer medication without the appropriate medical training. It may not sound like a big deal but it can get you and those you work with in trouble. No offense to you personally but there is absolutely no way I am allowing an unqualified person take vitals on a medical call, but I rarely trust anyone to take vitals for me. I hope they recheck the vitals themselves before making any treatment decisions.

This is not meant to be harsh. I know you are excited and want to learn but you really should be careful until you are actually an EMT.

No I totally hear you! That's why I am backing off for a while until I get my EMT. That wasn't harsh at all. In fact... I may go talk to the chief and see about holding off on the calls completely until I have my cert. My pager hasn't been on since the incident on why I created this topic. I do not want to get in the way. I am glad I made this topic. They made so many changes... They want me to show up for 60 calls per year even though I don't have my EMT cert... Do you think I should talk to the chief about this and maybe just make it to the trainings etc? Liability and safety come first for me. I am very excited, but I do not want myself or the full time guys to end up in a bad position. I am finally seeing why the captain was treating me the way she was... I kind of don't blame her.

It's like the tones go off... and I get super excited because it's what I love. But I need to realize the position I am putting the full time guys in. Reality is starting to kick in. September isn't too far away. That's when my school starts. I think the best thing for me right now is to study up. Especially since I have the book already. Just read it inside and out... That way when EMT class roles around I will be ahead of the game you know?

 

[Handsome Robb]

I think you need to speak with your chief and your captain and find out exactly what they expect from you beyond "60 calls per year". It makes no sense for them to allow you in and set the requirement then treat you like that.

With that said, I agree with the general consensus of the replies. You seem like a good guy with good intentions but give it a rest until you have the proper training to assist further than writing down vitals.

FWIW even if someone's writing stuff down and then gives it to me I end up writing it down again on my glove. It a sheet of monitor paper. I've got a system that I use every time and when things get out of order I start getting wacky.