medic417
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The Philipines must be the best because they come to the USA and fill many of the RN jobs.
paramedic to rn bridge_excelsior program
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The Philipines must be the best because they come to the USA and fill many of the RN jobs.
This statement alone proves beyond a doubt that you are absolutely blinded by your own arrogance. You believe that your personal opinion and experiences with education outweighs the opinion of an entire commission of nursing professionals with far more education and experience than your own.
See above.
I already have my RN license. If Excelsior loses state approval or NLN accreditation, it will not be retroactive. If you need proof of this, reference California's decision to continue accepting Excelsior students who were enrolled in the program prior to their decision to revoke state approval.
Again, if this were about your wonderful traditional school and folks were posting their absolutely meritless opinions on the quality of a program that they have no intimate knowledge of and have no part in the review process of, I'm sure that you would step in.
I am competent and have made it through an accredited RN program. I have passed the NCLEX. I am employed as an RN. I don't see how this equates to my ability to not "cut it".
Excelsior is a real nursing school. It is accredited and state approved. I'm sorry that you're unable to accept this into your limited scope of what reality is.
I already stated the reasons for my dropping out of a traditional LPN-to-RN program. It was because of the disorganization of clinicals and the interference with a full-time job. If I had the opportunity to sit in a classroom for two years and have everything spoon-fed to me and have my hand held during clinicals, I would have went that route. That's why I recommended going through a traditional program in my VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD.
I can't say why it's not approved in all 50 states. I'm sure that some part of it has to do with the fact that there are older nurses who have a very narrow mindset as to what education should be. I do believe that there are people on BON's that see the word "online" and assume it is a bad thing. You're an excellent example. If someone like you were to make it onto a BON or an accrediting agency's commission, you would crucify any online-based programs that attempt to gain recognition. Your blind post regarding the "online" paramedic program in another forum proves this. You failed to note that said online program had a hands-on component, but you immediately dismissed it without even reviewing it, by saying "Nothing about an online paramedic program seems legit. Stop looking for shortcuts and get with a campus-based program". You equate the word "online" to "shortcut" every single time.
I'm certain that another small part of the picture is lobbying on the part of in-state schools and a loss of in-state tuition. If you don't believe this, then that's one more strike against your narrow scope of reality. The reason that it IS approved without additional requirements in 34 states is not because it hasn't gone through the same rigorous review process as every other school that's approved by the state. Politics does play a part in it. Excelsior is the biggest out-of-state source of RN grads for every state except New York, where the program is located.
Excelsior is not a shortcut. To make this statement is to show, once again, your complete ignorance of the program. Pass-or-fail one-shot exams that require motivation and hundreds of hours of self-study for each course, and that are proctored at the same facility that administers NCLEX is not a shortcut. A pass-or-fail clinical performance examination that does not offer any hand-holding or coaching, that tests your ability to function as a new grad RN, that has a 62% pass rate (that is, only 62% of people pass it after completing the didactic portion of the program) is not a shortcut.
Provide proof of this. Excelsior's nursing program is only a joke to individuals like you who have a limited view of what education is. Fortunately, you do not speak for the medical or nursing community.
If the program is a joke, tell me why the Georgia Nurse's Association fought so hard to reverse the GA BON's decision to revoke state approval? Is the GNA also a joke to you and the nursing community?
Is this a cheap shot at Filpino nurses?
Do you have anything to actually comment on about their nursing education system?
If the pass rate from EC is only 62%, it just shows they have no control over who enters their program. How many have wasted their time and money with EC when they could have been getting real clinical experience and not just one of the weekend preps to prepare for this "clinical performance" test?
This is the pass rate for the CPNE. Not the pass rate for NCLEX. NCLEX pass rate for Excelsior grads is higher than the national average.
The washout rate at Excelsior is equal to or better than the washout rate at a traditional program. The only difference is that the washout is typically at the end during the CPNE. I suppose that they could incorporate "mini-CPNE's" in some way, and that may be something that comes about as the program evolves. But, somehow, I doubt that this would change your opinion of the program as they would likely not be 1000-1500 hours of hand-holding clinicals.
As for wasting time and money on EC, it's no different than the traditional student nearing the end of their studies that fails a course twice and has to either start the nursing program completely over or is dismissed from the program altogether.
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akflightmedic
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I didn't see it as a cheap shot...I saw it as a very poignant response and very much on topic.
medic417
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No it is a compliment as they are well prepared and are quickly hired at many hospitals which leads to the logical conclusion that their educational standards for RN exceed those of many USA RN programs. I do not see how you came up with your twisted interpretation of my statement.
akflightmedic
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Or....hospitals do not really care WHERE you get your education or HOW as long as you have RN behind your name...no?
medic417
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Or....hospitals do not really care WHERE you get your education or HOW as long as you have RN behind your name...no?
Honestly in most jobs I find they do not care about anything beyond the proper license or certification. Few ever ask about or check on the school.
So I presume you may be correct which then leads to the presumption that really all these pages that people typed in their opinions with limited facts are just a complete waste of internet space.
From the other threads, this statement seems to be true more of EMS than nursing. Degree does matter as an RN if you are applying to a hospital seeking Magnet status. As already mentioned, some ICUs prefer BSNs. It also matters for some internship programs the new RN might apply to. It will also matter if the RN wants to apply to a specialty unit such as a flight team.
It is really a great feeling to know you have completed a 4 year program that has a good reputation for high standards. If you have never done this, you might not know this feeling. Next to raising a family, it is a great accomplishment to do something that can give you and your family a secure future. Too many only want a job now and don't care about establishing a career or much about the future especially if entry is low. Some just seek shortcuts and will often go through life taking shortcuts to get by with just doing the minimum.
Why do so many on this forum seem to not view quality education with any importance? There should be more emphasis on something other than just getting a cert.
You did not elaborate or provide any information in your post which would indicate otherwise. Considering the nature of the posts surrounding it, your post seemed to follow more inline with an insult. I believe the recent post by akflightmedic shows that.
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I'm not surprised to see a certain poster, defender of the status quo for EMS education in other threads, defending EC because he thinks it is about Online vs Offline.
It isn't largely that.
Excelsior is the "medic mill" of nursing schools. Any other school doens't have to brag about "34 states" because everyone who is reputable is good in 50. It's such a big scam that other scammers have latched on to squeeze some more money out of the suckers who go for it. Google "The College Network" to learn about one of them.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT A MEDICAL SCHOOL WHOSE DOCTORS COULD ONLY PRACTICE IN 34 STATES?
What would people say if you could earn a Paramedic certification with NO practicals or clinicals? :unsure::unsure::unsure:
Additionally... MedicRob needs to realize that NLN is being abandoned by the reputable BSN programs because of NLN's recent trend in handing out accreditation like candy to degree mills and for-profit career schools. CCNE is the way now. My school abandoned NLN for this reason. We are CCNE. I go to one of the top two schools in my state, the other of which is doing the same thing. They have CCNE but their NLN hasn't expired yet.
Lastly, as to Excelsior "weeding out" more than others. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA that is pure proof that MedicRob is blind to the world we live in. Schools like Excelsior do the EXACT same thing as ITT-Tech, University of Phoenix, Concord Career College, etc: they are FOR PROFIT so they get as many students paying as possible, then drop them out and keep their money. It's all about making $$$ for the shareholders.
Real schools weed people in. My school (a non-profit) has a 5% acceptance rate and a 96% graduation rate for their RN program. They can do that because there are way more QUALIFIED people who want to be nurses than there are seats. They choose the best. The rest of the qualified people (many of them overly so) go to other schools and become RNs. It's the undesirable students who can't get in anywhere else who get suckered into ITT-Tech, University of Phoenix, and Excelsior College.
It isn't largely that.
Excelsior is the "medic mill" of nursing schools. Any other school doens't have to brag about "34 states" because everyone who is reputable is good in 50. It's such a big scam that other scammers have latched on to squeeze some more money out of the suckers who go for it. Google "The College Network" to learn about one of them.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT A MEDICAL SCHOOL WHOSE DOCTORS COULD ONLY PRACTICE IN 34 STATES?
What would people say if you could earn a Paramedic certification with NO practicals or clinicals? :unsure::unsure::unsure:
Additionally... MedicRob needs to realize that NLN is being abandoned by the reputable BSN programs because of NLN's recent trend in handing out accreditation like candy to degree mills and for-profit career schools. CCNE is the way now. My school abandoned NLN for this reason. We are CCNE. I go to one of the top two schools in my state, the other of which is doing the same thing. They have CCNE but their NLN hasn't expired yet.
Lastly, as to Excelsior "weeding out" more than others. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA that is pure proof that MedicRob is blind to the world we live in. Schools like Excelsior do the EXACT same thing as ITT-Tech, University of Phoenix, Concord Career College, etc: they are FOR PROFIT so they get as many students paying as possible, then drop them out and keep their money. It's all about making $$$ for the shareholders.
Real schools weed people in. My school (a non-profit) has a 5% acceptance rate and a 96% graduation rate for their RN program. They can do that because there are way more QUALIFIED people who want to be nurses than there are seats. They choose the best. The rest of the qualified people (many of them overly so) go to other schools and become RNs. It's the undesirable students who can't get in anywhere else who get suckered into ITT-Tech, University of Phoenix, and Excelsior College.
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In nursing, that isn't quite the case. Many positions state BSN preferred or required.
From everyone I've talked to, where you got your degree matters minimally once you have 3-5 years of experience. However, in the current economy WHERE THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF new grad NURSES, it can be everything. When there are 400 applicants for 8 new grad slots, you better believe it matters. In the same way that BSNs are getting hired more easily than ADNs, the more reputable schools are hired preferentially over the less reputable schools.
I researched this thoroughly before choosing my school. I chose based on what would give me the best education and the best competitive advantage in the job market. I don't want to be like my friends who went before me to ADN programs and took 8-14 months to find work. I don't wan to be one of the daily posts on a nursing forum wondering why after 200 applications over the course of a year, they have no interviews, but have a TON of student debt from their for-profit degree mill.
Shishkabob
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My bad Serum, I forgot that your non-complete education at a different school made you more of an expert on how different schools are run.
Apparently you know how everyone learns best and we should just do it that way, right?
Apparently you know how everyone learns best and we should just do it that way, right?
Considering medicRob has a BSN, consistently argued against EC from the outset of this thread, had enough respect for paramedicine and education to complete a 2 year medic program rather than challenge the test and works for one of the most respected CCT programs nationwide, I think your attacking the wrong poster...
The problem I have with EC is the lack of supervised clinical experince. As myself and others have pointed out over and over paramedicine is not nursing. Meaning we can't claim to be so specialized nurses can't tranfer over, but we in turn can go out and be nurses. It has NOTHING to do with online delivery.
All that said, the arrogance you display is astounding. There are EC graduates that could run circles around most new BSNs. Your a babe in the healthcare woods, cooling the attitude would go a long way towards furthering yourself.
The problem I have with EC is the lack of supervised clinical experince. As myself and others have pointed out over and over paramedicine is not nursing. Meaning we can't claim to be so specialized nurses can't tranfer over, but we in turn can go out and be nurses. It has NOTHING to do with online delivery.
All that said, the arrogance you display is astounding. There are EC graduates that could run circles around most new BSNs. Your a babe in the healthcare woods, cooling the attitude would go a long way towards furthering yourself.
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Shishkabob
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Eh? Me? I didn't attack Rob.
No not you, Serumk. If you keep getting in the way like this, I'm gonna have to let your preceptor know
.
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INDEED! I meant to type Rook, but I was all worked up and put the name of the poster I agree with instead of the one I disagree with! :unsure:
I apologize! I'd go change it but there appears to be an editing limit of 15 min.
I don't believe it is arrogance. Presenting comments which do not support minimal standards should not be viewed at arrogant.
EMS is very different and I have read through some of the posts on other threads supporting 3 month program. There are probably many excellent Paramedics by U.S. standards who have graduated from those programs. If you believe that is proof enough to allow a few months of training continue to be the standard for EMS, great. By knowing the standards that exist now, these so called medic mills are producing excellent Paramedics, then maybe EMS shouldn't change anything and the medic mill is more than adequate.
For the nursing profession expectations are being raised and just the minimum may not do. The profession has to move forward and not backward by continuing to accept grads from a program that has no clinicals and allows people who may have no hospital experience enter the profession so easily.
SerumK also has a very valid argument about nursing school accreditation and especially the CCNE. If the accrediting organization is no longer keeping up with the trends, it is time for a change. Isn't this an issue also where EMS just relied on approval from the state and accreditation from a tech school association rather than CAAHEP?
Because you don't feel comfortable with doing clinicals or feel you can not learn anything with hands on practice does not mean they should be tossed out just to accommodate you. There has to be some standards set especially when there are certain skills and assessments along with patient care experience that should be obtained. Right now in EMS it seems you can find a program to accommondate what you want and that is acceptable in EMS. That doesn't mean other professions should lower their standards because of what you expect by your experience with EMS programs. Even the non-medical professions have standards that must be obtained before they get their degree and certifications. Some people may not like working with computers but if it is required for the degree and to be in a profession then they may have to reconsider their major.
As mentioned before, there is nothing wrong with online education for some classes, but in a health care program that typically requires at 1000 - 1500 hours of clinicals, there should be some consideration about the significance of these hours. For some LVNs who have worked many patient care areas of the hospital, maybe they can be evaluated for less hours but what about the LVN who works in a doctor's office? Arguing across the board for lower standards with no clinical hours seems to not have the patient care part in mind but just wants to do the least possible to get a cert.
There are some in nursing who take pride in their profession and don't want to see it eroded by nursing mills. Maybe some have EMS backgrounds and haven't always known the medic mills to produce outstanding Paramedics all the time and don't want nursing to follow that path.
EC isn't exactly a mill. Take a look at the requirements! CAT does not favor suck ups and won't pass a failing grade! For a well seasoned Medic with the right science background, EC is an acceptable avenue to nursing. I know many who have done it and they typically run circles around most other nurses regardless of the degree they hold.