Paramedic Courses Changing by 2013?

[46Young]

Not always true. I applied for legal recognition of my MI & FL medic licenses in North Carolina. You cannot apply from anywhere with them. You have to be a resident of the state when you apply, or be affiliated with a NC EMS agency (for folks who live just outside the state but work IN the state)

Its been a pain in my ***!

There aren't really any dual role medic/ff positions in NC as far as I know. That's why I didn't think of NC when I said thet the fire service likes the NR cert. I remember looking around the southeast in general at third service EMS agencies, and seeing that they weren't really paying all that well in NC. That's what led me to Charleston SC for a brief time. Easy reciprocity and a salary that was higher than anything you'd find, fire based or not, from Southern VA down to the FL border. I never even looked at what NC wanted for reciprocity, since they didn't pay enough to support a family of three.

But I know what you're saying. While I was in the fire academy I was thinking about getting my foot back in the door at my old hosp based EMS job in NY, on a per diem basis, just in case I didn't make it through the academy. At over 30/hr, doing 24-32 hours on weekends would make it worth the trip. My NY cert had expired, and they required a challenge refresher, and I think residency. Not worth it. NR counts for nothing there.

 

[46Young]

Amazing still today there are schools that do not provide preceptors (employed per school) within the clinical environment. Then we wonder why more and more hospitals are becoming difficult to obtain clinical sites?...

More amazing we do ..."hours".... instead of reaching objectives. Coffee house clinicals, those that students never respond or even see and perform are asinine. For example, just placing .."time".. in a student will usually get a "S" satisfactory or "O" unable to evaluate.. really? What good did that clinical do for that student?

We flood the market in regards to Paramedic training. Seriously, most states could do very well with just a few institutions teaching and rotating students through quality clinical training and exposure. Would it costs more? Yes; but would it not be worth the price to ensure students to be exposed to, see and obtain clinical experience? Setting around playing the X-box is nice for down time events but for education?... The same as a non-busy ER, ICU/CCU.. were they exposed to respiratory failures, and those with true coronary problems?...Were there instructors there to ensure they participated in patient care and met objectives.. or did the students sit and watch monitors and hide in the corner?

If we restricted the number of students entering and those exiting, with quality graduates, we could defend the right to increase salary and anything associated with the profession.

R/r 911

Accreditation and generally holding schools accountable for their educational standards and practices is an excellent place to start. Organization on a national scale is pretty much out of the question due to the transient and fragmented nature of EMS at the moment. In order for that to change, I feel that employers across the board need to require EMS degrees to be considered for employment, or at least give strong preference in hiring to the educated. If more employers, at least the quality and high paying ones do this, then more EMS professional will sekk out degree programs. How do we start a trend in that direction?

 

[Veneficus]

Brown forsees absolutely no substantive, meaningful change and while Paramedics elsewhere in the world are out getting advanced degrees and practicing advanced prehospital medicine the US will remain in about 1990.

Its ok tho, I always did like the 90s.

I agree with Brown on this.

I very much like and support Rid's opinion on this, but what I see and forsee is:

Schools will paying small community colleges to piggyback "accreditation."
Simply done by being an "offsite" facility. I even know of one class that is a "offsite campus" from a CC in another state.

Why I ended my tour in education is because the new curriculum is going to be taught by a large population of "instructors" with no basic science background. In order to meet the "objectives" in the "allotted time," in other words the same amount of time spent now. This "education" will be reduced to series of bullet points from premade Mosby powerpoints that are simply a list of science facts to memorize that are in no way connected to the clinical sciences or demonstrated to be relavent in the patient care setting. It will be at least a decade before we should expect to see people with science undergrads in anything except nursing.

If that is the case, I would rather see nursing make a play to take over EMS in the US.

There are definately not enough nursing educators to supply their own industry, much less make time for EMS.

I doubt very much we will physics, biology, chemistry, or other science graduates with dual paramedic accreditation teaching ever.

Worse still would be a bunch of "EMS" degrees that were loaded with management and administrative courses and weak on basic science, it would be just more of the same as we have now.

Sorry to take the wind out of the sails, but there are many ways to resist change, and I think we are simply trading one way for another.

I would start expecting to see many EMS providers applying for work experience as educationl credit in liberal studies, urban affairs, or other non medical fields in order to simply meet the degree requirements.

Of course the national fire academy (another fine example of an institution of "higher learning") could always offer a bridge course too.

Not pessimistic, realistic. I have been in the game a long time and the moves are predictable. I don't see states moving away from NREMT en masse. One or two will try, see the cost and effort involved and move back.

A truly stellar idea is that an EMS educator should have a license as a healthcare provider to teach. It would quickly narrow the field to those not only with an interest, but people who have had basic science prereqs.

 

[FLEMTP]

Oh yeah, NC makes you jump through a few more hoops to get their license. My family is moving to NC in another year or so. I plan on setting up temporary residence at a family member's home in order to meet the requirements to get the NC reciprocity process started. That way, I'll have it in hand by the time I start sending out my resume.

It's a pain, but in a way I understand why they do it that way.

yes, i have family there also. I now "live" there.. lol.

I guess after they approve my education ( had to request transcripts from my program.. crossing my fingers cuz its been 8 years ) then I have to go get fingerprinted for an FBI background check...then im sure a DNA sample and a retinal scan will be next lol

 

[MrBrown]

I agree with Brown on this.

In a recent double-blinded, placebo controlled, randomised trial it was found that 9 out of 10 people agreed with Brown.

Even more evidence that people should listen to Brown

 

[rescue99]

In a recent double-blinded, placebo controlled, randomised trial it was found that 9 out of 10 people agreed with Brown.

Even more evidence that people should listen to Brown

choke, gag, cough cough...Um, sure..whatever Brown says

 

[Emtpbill]

Is the National Registery a for profit organization that only has certification power the states allow them to have? There is talk in PA. to go back to just the state cert. And forget about NR.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

Is the National Registery a for profit organization that only has certification power the states allow them to have? There is talk in PA. to go back to just the state cert. And forget about NR.

The NR doesn't have any power other than the power to grant their certification. Because they have a high quality testing program, many states use the NREMT tests to certify their EMTs and Medics. Essentially, in those states, they make you take the NREMT tests, and when the NREMT certifies that you passed the exams then the state will give you your license or state certificate.

 

[Melclin]

In a recent double-blinded, placebo controlled, randomised trial it was found that 9 out of 10 people agreed with Brown.

Even more evidence that people should listen to Brown

I have serious methodological concerns

 

[Melclin]

Vene: I feel sorry for you blokes and gals. I don't know how you fix those issues.

With a bachelor's degree as standard entry level qualification we still have a range of problems. In some ways we might be lucky to have only those problems, but we have many problems none the less.

With a bachelors degree standard for first tier responders and a graduate diploma for second tier responders, as well as the commensurate responsibility, the majority of paramedics feel they are not paid enough. We're already paid as much as three times as much as some of our mates in the US. I wonder how this issue will progress.

There is also a strong clash between old and new cultures. Poorly educated providers with a wealth of experience vs well educated providers with very little experience. In addition, even after almost ten years, the degree is not yet particularly good at spitting out a large number of competent paramedics.

There is a profound shortage of paramedics in rural areas. As the required levels for paramedics rise, rural people who would once have been able to spend six months at the ambulance college and then return home for 2 years of vocational and distance education, are being largely excluded by a requirement to spend 3 years or more away from home. This is leading to an increasing amount of volunteer...well...EMTs..effectively. Oddly, raising the educational quota may mean that some communities actually end up with less qualified providers. Not that there aren't ways around that. My university is working on a number of distance education options.

I just thought I'd add a few words of ?wisdom from a system that has already instituted a a high level of education for both providers and educators.