NEMSA Union

[exodus]

Has anyone here been unionized by them, and what did you think of it?

http://www.nemsausa.org/

 

[Aidey]

I know we looked at it when our contact came up last time. A few people really liked them, but most hated them (and we stayed with our old union). They sent a former used car salesman as their spokesman, and he was not well liked. The few people that did like them were all people who had been in trouble and felt like the current union hadn't backed them up.

They also have a reputation as being company friendly more than other unions.

 

[JPINFV]

They also have a reputation as being company friendly more than other unions.

...which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Plenty of unions have negotiated themselves out of a job before.

 

[FLEMTP]

My personal opinion.. ( and many of you might disagree, but i don give a rat's @ss) is that the time and place for unions is in the past.. and they are a major contributor to the bloating of the government, increased government spending, and are responsible for the loss of public safety sector jobs in rough economic times.

They [unions] were a major contributor to the downfall of the Big three automakers due to the legacy costs of employment

Unions are also the reason public k-12 education costs so much and really does so little.. and why our schools can't afford textbooks.

For those of you who wish to argue these points.. i can provide PLENTY of examples.

 

[Veneficus]

My personal opinion.. ( and many of you might disagree, but i don give a rat's @ss) is that the time and place for unions is in the past.. and they are a major contributor to the bloating of the government, increased government spending, and are responsible for the loss of public safety sector jobs in rough economic times.

They [unions] were a major contributor to the downfall of the Big three automakers due to the legacy costs of employment

Unions are also the reason public k-12 education costs so much and really does so little.. and why our schools can't afford textbooks.

For those of you who wish to argue these points.. i can provide PLENTY of examples.

I'd like to add alittle more to this from personal experience.

Unions protect substandard employees. Ones who from lack of ability or behavior and should have been shown the door.

They reward mediocrity. The last union shop I worked for had a clause tht an employee could only meet expectations or fail to meet expectations. Nobody could be exceptional in any way officially.

What they provided was far less than what they cost. Routinely all the non union staff got more raises more often and higher percentages.

Aside from a monthly news letter with a bunch of propaganda and a vote for whatever democrat was running for office in any given election. I could have done much better without them. "Right to work" laws should be in every state. None of this "fair share fee" crap.

In my opinion the only thing more useless and outdated than joining a union is joining one that represents somebody elses interests. Like 3rd Service agencies that join the IAFF and wonder where thier jobs went.

 

[reidnez]

My personal opinion.. ( and many of you might disagree, but i don give a rat's @ss) is that the time and place for unions is in the past.. and they are a major contributor to the bloating of the government, increased government spending, and are responsible for the loss of public safety sector jobs in rough economic times.

They [unions] were a major contributor to the downfall of the Big three automakers due to the legacy costs of employment

Unions are also the reason public k-12 education costs so much and really does so little.. and why our schools can't afford textbooks.

For those of you who wish to argue these points.. i can provide PLENTY of examples.

Unions are also one of the main reasons that we enjoy the 40-hour work week, overtime pay, child labor laws, workman's comp, and many other wonderful things that we take for granted, but which simply did not exist one hundred years ago. Even those who are not unionized nonetheless enjoy those protections. You could argue that since those things are codified into law and a very basic, decent standard for workers now exists (that itself is quite debatable), that unions are obsolete. I'm not so sure. One need only look to the myriad, well-documented abuses of a company like Wal-Mart (illegally hiring undocumented cleaning workers at sub-minimum wage; failing to pay overtime, to name two) for justification. Whether the solution is unions, better government oversight, or something else, the need for worker protection is clear.

As far as the automakers go, it's worth noting that company executives of years past share responsibility in that boondoggle. Decades ago when workers demanded better pay, the companies bargained and offered incredibly cushy retirement packages instead. In doing this, they shifted costs away from their own balance sheets and pushed them decades into the future (when they knew they wouldn't be around to deal with the fallout.) This kept both shareholders and unions happy, but it was obviously shortsighted.

I'm not saying that there haven't been abuses, but I do firmly believe that unions have their place.

 

[Veneficus]

Unions are also one of the main reasons that we enjoy the 40-hour work week, overtime pay, child labor laws, workman's comp, and many other wonderful things that we take for granted, but which simply did not exist one hundred years ago. Even those who are not unionized nonetheless enjoy those protections. You could argue that since those things are codified into law and a very basic, decent standard for workers now exists (that itself is quite debatable), that unions are obsolete. I'm not so sure. One need only look to the myriad, well-documented abuses of a company like Wal-Mart (illegally hiring undocumented cleaning workers at sub-minimum wage; failing to pay overtime, to name two) for justification. Whether the solution is unions, better government oversight, or something else, the need for worker protection is clear..

I don't think anyone is arguing the past benefits of unions. Some unions are responsible for democratic revolutions in former communist and socialist countries. Also note that Wal Mart lost litigation for their practices that was brought forth by non union employees. It is also a double edged sword. You want cheap products and high quality of life, that excludes unions. a atl atl was a handy invention a couple thousand years ago. The time of the union is over I think.

As far as the automakers go, it's worth noting that company executives of years past share responsibility in that boondoggle. Decades ago when workers demanded better pay, the companies bargained and offered incredibly cushy retirement packages instead. In doing this, they shifted costs away from their own balance sheets and pushed them decades into the future (when they knew they wouldn't be around to deal with the fallout.) This kept both shareholders and unions happy, but it was obviously shortsighted..

Maybe it was a plan? Offer them something now that bankruptcy cancels out so in the end they get nothing? More than one company has went to bankruptcy to cancel union deals over decades. What about that airtraffic controlers union? That worked out well.

I'm not saying that there haven't been abuses, but I do firmly believe that unions have their place.

A union is nothing more than a street gang. Back in the day it did protect workers rights, but those days are gone. It's place is in history books.

 

[FLEMTP]

Im with Veneficus on this one..

our dept is IAFF, and we, along with about 15 other fire depts and one other EMS dept all make up one local.. all under different districts for each respective bargaining unit.

Between our dept and the other EMS dept..we have the voting majority out of all the other depts combined.. but... the IAFF represents the interests of the fire service, and not EMS..and will push for a fire takeover of EMS depts whenever they can to protect "union" jobs

really.. the unions need to go... far far away...

They represent the democratic interests, and I for one wont let my union dues go to fund Obama's re-election campaign or the union thugs trying to break up peaceful demonstrations by those who dont subscribe to the union's political views.. (the tea party rallies are a great example)

Fortunately in my state, even if you are working in a union shop, you have the option of "joining" the union or not, and either paying dues or not. You are still covered by any union contracts, and still have voting rights on the contracts only, but cannot receive union representation during discipline, and the union will gladly throw those not in the union under the bus first to save themselves.

Unions need to go away.. would be a huge help on reducing the overhead costs of operating a governmental body.

 

[JPINFV]

but cannot receive union representation during discipline, and the union will gladly throw those not in the union under the bus first to save themselves.

Maybe employees would make better choices if they didn't have union goons available to do their arguing for them.
/never had a union goon to protect me
//never needed a union goon to protect me
///has ability to state my own logical case to management that has protected me plenty of time.
//slashies!

 

[exodus]

From what it looks like on the hand outs we received, we will be receiving a (on average 30% raise). Which will help me tons... To be honest, I'm not interested in the union keeping my job. I'm interested in it to be protected from management screwing us over as far as schedule screw ups and cancelling shifts, then 'forgetting' to call us to let us know and offer us other work to make up those hours.

 

[FLEMTP]

From what it looks like on the hand outs we received, we will be receiving a (on average 30% raise). Which will help me tons... To be honest, I'm not interested in the union keeping my job. I'm interested in it to be protected from management screwing us over as far as schedule screw ups and cancelling shifts, then 'forgetting' to call us to let us know and offer us other work to make up those hours.

Hey, the unions are great for negotiating a raise for people..especially when they are new to the situation... but you've got to realize.. .they increase your wages by 30%... but they will want you as employees to make some concessions... its all a give and take.. not to mention, a raise in wages may hurt you in the long run.. when budgets get cut, wages can get slashed, and if the union say no pay cuts.. then jobs get slashed... the fire depts in the county I work in have found this out the hard way.. one lost approx 30 firefighters.. which was a 1/3 of their dept.. and another lost 16 .. which was 1/4 of their dept... all because the union said no to a pay cut or additional concessions.

It may sound good in the here and now.. but be careful because it may come back to bite you....

What type of agency do you work for? municipal? private?

Also how do your wages NOW compare to other similar agencies in your area.. and how would they compare after the raise?

Im all for paramedics and EMT's making a decent living wage.. but its one of those things that you have to weigh out for the long run... as i said.. it might come back to bite you when you lose your job in a year because they had to cut positions or charge more for healthcare...or eliminate your paid time off/sick time/vacation time to maintain the rate of pay you're making..

 

[JPINFV]

Another question... how much of that 30% goes to union fees? You aren't making any more money if the raise is in one part of the paycheck and deducted for the goon squad at another part of the paycheck.

 

[exodus]

I work for a private service. Fairly large, we span all over San Diego, Orange County, and LA. This isn't a career service at this place.

 

[FLEMTP]

This isn't a career service at this place.

of course its not.. because after the union coerces the company into giving up money in the form of raises.. it will only be a matter of time before the union puts the company out of business.. that's a union for you

 

[exodus]

of course its not.. because after the union coerces the company into giving up money in the form of raises.. it will only be a matter of time before the union puts the company out of business.. that's a union for you

Maybe they will just take some of the salary pay from some higher ups, anyone higher than an EMT/Dispatcher drives a mercedes, jaguar, or porsche

 

[flitemedic]

I live and work in Texas..."A Right to Work" state...I too, in other careers have worked in a union shop.....But I worked on the "open" side and received raises and perks that the closed side did not...and I made as much or in some cases more that the union side....So unions can go "form a vacuum" somewhere as far as I'm concerned

 

[volparamedic]

Unions

Unions have to be started for the correct reasons. I know we self unionized due to unfair working practices. I have seen a huge change in management since we went union. Then again the union is only as strong as the employees make it, along with the eboard having the right people in place. As a private sector it can be very beneficial.

 

[Pittma]

Go go gadget governor of Wisconsin!

I'm with Venificus on this one too. I especially think that the unions we are often forced to join which protect you from the "evil big corporation" become one themselves. They also can create a rift between management and employees, leading to obnoxious things like crappy gear...I've seen it in some of the unionized companies out here. Management gets sick of its employees costing them money, so to get back at them they scrap their strykers and lifepak 15s and give them...well who knows

 

[46Young]

I get it how union thugs promote sloth, how they slow down work "to make the job last," intimidation and physical violence towards scabs and management, how they drove jobs away, etc.

I understand how merit based compensation increases promote productivity, and how superior qualifications and credentials can and should influence promotions. My issue is how to disable cronyism, nepotism, and other forms of favoritism. I'd hate to be passed over for a promotion or assignment for the supervisor's drinking buddy, or cousin's wife. Also, how do you go about changing undesireable schedules, leave policies, inconsistent discipline, compensation, poor equipment, etc. What about the person that someone in management doesn't like for whatever reason, so they follow them around, and look to generate a paper trail wherever possible, set them up, change their work schedule to make it untenable, etc, to get them to resign, when no one else is subject to such scrutiny. Dont' tell me these things don't happen, because I've seen it time and time again. Sometimes to someone who deserves it, other times to someone who doesn't maybe someone who the supervisor sees as a future competitive threat. Many don't have the resources to fight these grievances on their own, and management knows that. Especially if you're not from a protected class, you're fair game.

I like our setup. It's a right-to-work state, pretty much what Wisconsin will be, but our union has influence due to political connections, and doesn't have the problems that I mentioned above.

 

[ffemt8978]

Unions still have their place, especially in industries where the companies are taking advantage of their employees. There are companies out there who pay their employees piece rate wages and then charge them more than they were originally paid as a penalty if every arbitrary standard isn't met. This practice is more widespread then people realize.

I'm not saying unions are needed in every industry, I'm just saying that they are still needed.