How much did becoming an EMT/medic cost you?

afro

Forum Ride Along
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My comment was about US EMS being treated like crap, at least the privates. It's pretty much all I hear. No hours, crap hours, crap equipment, crap rigs, crap HR, etc.

But I hear the Canadians get it right. A good education and decent pay, can do much more cool stuff in field, things like that. Though I could be wrong... it's happened before. :p
 

hippocratical

Forum Lieutenant
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Plus I don't think they treat their EMS like crap.

Depends on your definition of "like crap" :rolleyes:

This is a little out of my scope of knowledge, but from where I sit, I get the very strong impression that Canadian standards (well, Alberta at least) are way higher than the US counterparts (and I mean this in no derogatory way at all).

I have a friend who got his Paramedic license in the states and wanted to practice here, but he cant get anywhere. At first I thought this was bureaucratic BS, until I realised that there is a significant difference between a 6 month "walk-in-a-newb / walk-out-a-paramedic" certification and:
* $2,000 140hr EMR (EMT-B), then
* have enough experience to apply for the 6 month, $8,000 EMT (EMT-I) course (average 6 applicants per spot at a good school)
* have enough experience to apply for the 2 year, full time $15,000 EMT-P course.

Those aren't even apples to oranges.

Oh, and another thing I've found interesting is the impression I get that many Ambulances in the states seem to be staffed with EMT-Bs. Where I am, EMRs (EMT-Bs) couldn't get to work urban BLS units unless it's transport. EMT-I is the minimum.

Wages also depend on location. Urban is lots of experience, but middling pay. Oilfield is EMS (Earning Money Sleeping) but the pay is fantastic. I've met paramedics doing oilfield that earn 200K a year. I hear stories of even more pay than that. A EMT-P working oilfield though must be incredible boring though - you're skilled up and yet do literally nothing. Like Chuck Norris working as a Walmart night watch guard.
 
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systemet

Forum Asst. Chief
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I'm a little out of date with some of this stuff, but:

This is a little out of my scope of knowledge, but from where I sit, I get the very strong impression that Canadian standards (well, Alberta at least) are way higher than the US counterparts (and I mean this in no derogatory way at all).

(1) I don't think there's really much of a Canadian standard. The closest thing is probably the NOCPs here. (http://www.paramedic.ca/Content.aspx?ContentID=4&ContentTypeID=2). The CCP scope definitely exceeds US NREMTP, but does the ACP?

(2) The AB scope looks impressive on paper: http://collegeofparamedics.org/Content_Files/Files/aocp_emtP.pdf, but there's not a lot of people running around analysing A-lines, CVP lines, Swan-Ganz lines and monitoring balloon pumps. The provincial MCGs are good, but there's probably a lot of places in the states doing similar things http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/hp/if-hp-ems-mcp.pdf

(3) The AB EMT/PCP is 6 months. The Ontario PCP is 2 years. Both are Canadian Medical Association accredited as PCP programs. It's got to be virtually certain that ON produces better-trained PCPs.


I have a friend who got his Paramedic license in the states and wanted to practice here, but he cant get anywhere. At first I thought this was bureaucratic BS, until I realised that there is a significant difference between a 6 month "walk-in-a-newb / walk-out-a-paramedic" certification and:
* $2,000 140hr EMR (EMT-B), then
* have enough experience to apply for the 6 month, $8,000 EMT (EMT-I) course (average 6 applicants per spot at a good school)
* have enough experience to apply for the 2 year, full time $15,000 EMT-P course.

Those aren't even apples to oranges.

(1) There's EMT-P programs in the states that are 2 years. This isn't particularly special.

(2) $2,000 for an EMR program is outrageous.

(3) I have never heard of an EMT school requiring experience at the EMR level for acceptance, as there's basically nowhere that hires EMRs for 911 work.

(4) The EMT was 6 months back when it consisted of EMR + blood glucose, 3-lead ECG, IV lines and MAST. Now there's meds, D50W (been there for a while), ASA, NTG, epi, glucagon, etc. And BIADS (combitube / LMA / king). But the training hours haven't increased. It's probably a lot closer to the US NREMT-I scope now, but I wouldn't be too proud of it. I think Ontario does a way better job with BLS.


Wages also depend on location. Urban is lots of experience, but middling pay. Oilfield is EMS (Earning Money Sleeping) but the pay is fantastic. I've met paramedics doing oilfield that earn 200K a year. I hear stories of even more pay than that. A EMT-P working oilfield though must be incredible boring though - you're skilled up and yet do literally nothing. Like Chuck Norris working as a Walmart night watch guard.

(1) It used to be that the cities paid better than the surrounding services. I was under the impression that now the pay is pretty similar in different locations, as almost everyone's getting paid from the same contract. Perhaps I'm poorly informed.

(2) 200K for the oilfield? Based on a 240 day work-year, that's close to $850 / day. You might be right, but I'd be surprised. The numbers I've heard are closer to $500-$625 / day. Which is still around 120K, and a truckload of money. But it comes with being a long way from home, for a long time.

I'm not saying the AB system is bad. I actually think it's quite good. But the length of training basically hasn't been increased in 20 years, and the scope of practice, and general responsibilities have. I think if AB is to continue moving forwards, it needs to address some fundamental training issues -- this is probably true for EMS in general.

Not trying to start an argument, just stating an opinion :)
 
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hippocratical

Forum Lieutenant
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Not trying to start an argument, just stating an opinion :)

No worrries - me neither. I'm always interested in more information or other opinions.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the Albertan programs/standards are the best or perfect, just what I've seen of them.

> (2) $2,000 for an EMR program is outrageous.

I was just factoring in course + exam + registration + some beer.

200K paramedics weren't just sitting in an MTC, but also helping in administrative roles too which bumped them up the pay scale. YMMV though!
 

DESERTDOC

Forum Lieutenant
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For my program it was $3,300 total. It included:

ACLS
PALS
BTLS

All books.

My EMT class was 25 dollars.
 
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mediKate

Forum Probie
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"I'm not saying the AB system is bad. I actually think it's quite good. But the length of training basically hasn't been increased in 20 years, and the scope of practice, and general responsibilities have. I think if AB is to continue moving forwards, it needs to address some fundamental training issues -- this is probably true for EMS in general."

So true! Ontario's system with a long PCP program and a shorter ACP program is a great idea, as far as I'm concerned. Give them a really solid foundation, and then build on it, rather than cramming way too much material into a 6 month course.
I have actually heard some chatter that AB might be thinking of adopting a similar system sometime in the future. Not sure what's up with that, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed. The thing is that its going to be hard to change a system that has been running the same way for 20+ years...

BTW, what is the average cost of PCP schooling, (and ACP schooling for that matter), in ON?
 

EMT-IT753

Forum Lieutenant
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Basic= $504 + $150/books
$70 NREMT CBT

Medic
$4000 tuition/approximate
$600/ books
$200/NREMT Practical fee
$110/ NREMT CBT

Gas driving back and forth to clinical locations just for June and July was close to $1000

It is going to take a long time to recover the expense of getting the Paramedic patch :rofl:
 

MedicBender

Forum Captain
284
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Medic Class was around $6000 after everything. This included ACLS, PALS, ITLS, and NRP

While applying for jobs I've probably spent around $300 on state licenses. New Mexico being the most expensive at $170
 

EMT11KDL

Forum Asst. Chief
964
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everything listed above plus one marriage
 

MrBrown

Forum Deputy Chief
3,957
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Bachelor of Health Science (Paramedic) degree is about $20,000 and starting salary is ~$40,000

The Ambulance Service will pay for you to complete the Post Graduate Diploma required ontop of the Degree to become an Intensive Care Paramedic
 

TraprMike

Forum Lieutenant
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All fees picked up by the Volunteer Department that I work for:

$750 for class (included books, background check, CPR)
Testing fee for NREMT (reimbursed by department)
Transportation to/from class in department vehicle.

The only cost to me was my time/effort.

Same here, except i had no reimbursement. volly service paid for everything up front. Even uniforms, pants, tshirt, sweatshirt. and one "off duty" pull over.
 

TheMowingMonk

Forum Lieutenant
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For the Whole Shebang

EMT-B School: $950
National Reg Testing: $75
EMT County Cert Fee: $50

2 years later
Paramedic School: $13,500 (Included all books, internships, Uniforms, ACLS, PALS....Etc)
National Reg Study Books: $40
National Reg:$100
State Licensing Fee: $75
Not even county Misc fees like cost of gas driving to and from class, to and from internship which got pretty steep.
 

NomadicMedic

EMS Educator
11,961
6,672
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EMT at the local community college was about 800, all told.

Medic school was closer to 8,000. Oh, and my 10 year marriage. Can't leave out that detail.


---
- Sent from my iPhone.
 

DarkStarr

Forum Lieutenant
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EMT-B was $150 plus book.

EMT-P so far was $850 plus books ($400) plus medical exam and titers ($300ish).
 

Smoke14

Forum Crew Member
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Jimmy Carter paid for my class, lab fees and books. My employer back then covered me for class and clinicals if I was supposed to be working and paid me if I had class on days off.

Can anyone beat that? LOL
 

Dober317

Forum Probie
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Class was integrated into my high school's curriculum as an elective course. Book cost me $70, the practical skills exam $75, and the written exam $70 (or the other way around...) In all, $215 or $220.

Bachelor of Science in Emergency Medical Services Management? More than enough to make me cry.
 

MedicJon88

Forum Crew Member
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For my program it was $3,300 total. It included:

ACLS
PALS
BTLS

All books.

My EMT class was 25 dollars.

Which state did you do ur EMT and P-medic? thats a bargin.
 

Flight-LP

Forum Deputy Chief
1,547
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EMT-B - Covered by Uncle Sam

Paramedic - About $300 for NREMT and skills, + fuel, food, and booze expenses. So I figure total around $1000.
 
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