High Flow O2 on COPD pts

JakeEMTP

Forum Captain
257
0
0
Yeah, in an ideal world I'd like to see it replicated, but with an EMS service (and hospital) that uses non-invasive ventilation.

Don't really care about the ABGs, but I know the critical care folks love those numbers! As long as there is some clear & practical outcomes data, that would be good.

Just the use of noninvasive ventilation in the Emergency Department has numerous articles of documented data over the past several decades. The survival and avoidance of intubation are well documented even if NIV was not started in the field. Those in EMS should not disregard this data even if it was not done in an ambulance. The way to change is to see what others are doing and see if it can be applied in the field or at least understand the reasons behind it with the disease process.

ABGs are a great way to determine CO2 retention. Statistically very few COPD patients are retainers. There are other points such as fatique and deadspace which will determine endpoint for need of additional support.

You might ask the lab to pull up the number of ABGs drawn in the ED. You might be surprised at the number done. Alot of patients in the ED do end up in the ICU. There are alot of reasons to draw them besides CO2. If used appropriately by someone who understands the numbers and how to correlate them to other data, ABGs should not be discounted as just numbers.
 

AnthonyM83

Forum Asst. Chief
667
0
16
It depends on her oxygen: is she on that chronically, or did the facility start her on it? If she's not normally on oxygen, I would probably leave where she is. If she's normally on 3 LPM, I might bump it up a little. Either way, if everything else appeared normal, I would probably go with 2-6 LPM.

Okay, gotcha. That first post made it seem like you wouldn't give any oxygen at all for dyspnea unless they had more signs/symptoms/abnormal-vitals.
 

ironco

Forum Probie
11
0
0
I agree with everyone else. I once had an IFT where five minutes away from the transferring facility the guys o2 dropped to 65% and resp increased to around 32/min. He had COPD. This guys exact words were "can you help me breathe" I threw a bvm on 25lpm and started assisting him and turned around back to the ED. If while bagging him I had him at 96% if I stopped for a split second he would drop all the way back down. When we walked in the nurse absolutely jerked that bvm out of my hand and proceded to chew me and put him on a nc. When the doc came in and the guy was satting 63% on a nc the doc said "WHY AREN'T YOU BAGGING HIM" lmao then came a first. The pt states "can you tube me" lol Doc says sure thing
 
Top