Ethical scenario about employee urinanlysis

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BOSlife said:
Before anyone posts another word. Go watch the Zeitgeist Movement documentaries by Peter Joseph. No, it has absolutely nothing to do with drug testing or EMS. Yet, it is the most factual and complete perspective of U.S society and culture to date.
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If the Wiki page on it has any truth (that the movement advocates moving from a monetary economy to a resource based economy and that bartering, trade, loans, etc are inherently bad), then I think I'll pass. I'd also like to advise that group to go and retake high school level economics.
 
JPINFV said:
If the Wiki page on it has any truth (that the movement advocates moving from a monetary economy to a resource based economy and that bartering, trade, loans, etc are inherently bad), then I think I'll pass. I'd also like to advise that group to go and retake high school level economics.
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Wiki page was right.
I had that discussion about our economic system with someone not too long ago and he recommended that bartering would be a far better system. He told me to watch the same movie. It made some valid points about how our current economic system is flawed, but there is truth in your high school level statement. It would never work.
 
blittle said:
Wiki page was right.
I had that discussion about our economic system with someone not too long ago and he recommended that bartering would be a far better system. He told me to watch the same movie. It made some valid points about how our current economic system is flawed, but there is truth in your high school level statement. It would never work.
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The problem with straight bartering is that it is completely inefficient. How exactly do you trade for 4 and a half chickens? Just as importantly, how do you carry around said chickens? It's much easier and efficient to use currency because currency doesn't really suffer from those issues.
 
Bullets said:
If your intent was to debate methods of drug testing then you failed to make that clear.
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Yes. That is very apparent.

Bullets said:
You made it more about someones right to smoke pot. Your employer probably has a procedure outlined in it's substance abuse policy in regards to which test is used or available. Any accident with damage over $500 automatically triggers a drug test as that is the amount set by the state for a reportable accident
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It was my thought that more people on this forum and the general public, including employers, are beginning to see that what you do in your free time is not of another's concern.

Bullets said:
Tame emotional thought and health? That's the biggest crock I have ever heard. The majority of citizens manage to alleviate stress without resorting to crime
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Everyone must tame their emotional thought and health one way or another. Whether or not you choose to use marijuana is completely up to you, but there is a reason why half the country has at least tried it. The fact that it is a 'crime' is the biggest crock in the history of human civilization.

Bullets said:
An employer has the right to set a policy regarding substance abuse and use amongst it's employees. If you don't like their policy then you don't have to work for them.
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Doesn't mean their policy is right.

Bullets said:
Alcohol is legal at every level, yet employers still prohibit employees from being under the influence when they arrive at work
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Did I ever say employees should be able to come to work high? Absolutely not. That contradicts my entire point that marijuana users should be able to PROVE their own sobriety on the job. (Although they shouldn't have to)


Bullets said:
Prescription drugs are issued by a doctor to treat medical illnesses, yet employers also restrict employees from being under the influence of certain pharmaceuticals while at work
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Wish we didn't go down that road. But we did. Marijuana is a medical treatment. Before you get off your rocker on how medical marijuana is a crock and a poor excuse for people to light up...Go do your own research, I have nothing to prove here.
 
blittle said:
I think your view of marijuana is a bit skewed, veneficus. Getting that many results, doesn't solely prove your point.
It may impact neuro function on schizophrenics, but according to this (unless I'm misinterpreting it [which is possible, I'm tired]) it is only a temporary worsening of the disease, not cannabis being the cause of the disease (which is what I interpreted your response as somewhat being)
http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/ww_en_db_study_show.php?s_id=213&&search_pattern=ANXIOLYTIC
I can PM you to the site that I found the article on, if you wish.

Now, on the actual topic that the OP was talking about.
Personally, I see no alternative to UA's. As far as the law is concerned, THC is illegal and they obviously test for THC. As long as you test positive, its a DUI. You are still under the effects of the drug, because it's still in your system (not saying this is right, but from the legal aspect).
As many others have said, though, the public service world is not fond of illegal drug use, so, I see no place for it to be in their system in the first place.

Edit: I'm genuinely surprised at how many people seem to have such a view of degradation on cannabis users on here. I haven't encountered that so far in person in the EMS world (although my experiences are limited). I don't smoke, but I definitely don't look down on people that do. Personal choice, IMO.
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Genuine godsend right here. Thank you blittle. Veneficus, maybe you need to do a little more research and think before you generate a conclusion based on thousands of different articles of scientific research that you haven't even read
 
JPINFV said:
If the Wiki page on it has any truth (that the movement advocates moving from a monetary economy to a resource based economy and that bartering, trade, loans, etc are inherently bad), then I think I'll pass. I'd also like to advise that group to go and retake high school level economics.
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Peter Joseph would have your head! I ought to save this and submit it to the movement. ...However, your last sentence just affirms to me that you need to learn about our economy and the way it works more than anyone here, and that is thoroughly explained. The idea of a resource based economy is only an ideal (our culture is far far away from that, sadly). Peter Joseph (not actually his real name, in interests to protect his own privacy) is very well versed in economics (I believe he states that he has done research through the PhD level) Either way, that doesn't matter. You'll realize that economics are why our country is in so much trouble. AFTER you watch his documentaries. It is time well spent, you WILL learn something. (Moving on, conduct some research in to 'Peak oil' as well, 'Collapse' is a fairly good synopsis)
 
JPINFV said:
The problem with straight bartering is that it is completely inefficient. How exactly do you trade for 4 and a half chickens? Just as importantly, how do you carry around said chickens? It's much easier and efficient to use currency because currency doesn't really suffer from those issues.
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Man, you need to think outside the box. And your EMT-B education has only taken you this far? lol ;) A resource based economy is where a EVERYONE works to produce the goods so EVERYONE can have clean water, food, and shelter. Sounds like socialism, right? Wrong, that is only your perspective because our society has forced this perspective of self-sustainability propelled by greed and wealth (that is capitalism at its best)
 
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And done.

And if anyone starts a new thread in order to continue any part of this discussion they will get a forum vacation.
 
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