EMT accused of ignoring dying NYC woman is killed

[Cory]

I've though about this a lot. I think I would have at least looked at the scene, made sure no one was trying to do something stupid like hold her tongue (thats still common, right?) or that there wasn't another traumatic injury apparent, but I don't think I would have done much more than that. But, I also think instincts would have told me that those people wouldn't be happy when I just walk away.

Something that WE have to understand though, is that to the regular person, violent convulsions look very, very scary. And when people panic, stupid things happen.

 

[medic417]

That easily describes a large chunk of EMS calls. Doing very little of substance but looking professional and busy in the process.

Exactly.

 

[Malissa]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/nyregion/21emt.html?_r=1

This article says she died of asthma. It also states that according to the EMT's they never came in contact with the patient only a coworker and that at that time there was no sense of urgency. It's really hard to say what side of the story is correct.

 

[firecoins]

asthma, seizures whatever. WHat can 2 EMT-Bs off duty but in uniform do?

The sense of urgency is interpretive.

 

[Cory]

asthma, seizures whatever. WHat can 2 EMT-Bs off duty but in uniform do?

The sense of urgency is interpretive.

Agreed, unfortunately the public will never be able to undertsand that logic. And instead, they just slander his name and say things like "Got what he deserved" and it scares me, because I can only imagine what could happen to me in this situation.

But, just to be clear, when it comes to the actual shooting, I'm sure he wasn't so innocent...

Did anyone else see this comment about "EMT neglect"?

First I want to make clear that, violence never solve the solution to any problem or emotional pain anyone may incur on behalf on another if this is the case. It is very suspicious.
Second, being an EMT is one of the most stressful jobs you can have.
Third,I can relate to EMT neglect when I had to use their service for the first time in June of 2007 and was told I was faking by the EMTs while lying on the floor of my home thinking I was having a heart attack or stroke.It's a long story, so I won't take too much of up your time. But, the EMT's went through my personal things in my bedroom, chester drawer, called the police on me all while I was lying on the floor scared to death thinking I was having a heart attack or stroke, (due to my family history & work field) while being taunted to get up due to faking or I would be arrested.
I don't know what happened to ethics, I'm so sorry 25-year-old Eutisha Rennix lost her life, along with her baby.and I don't know if it could have been prevented, I know I wouldn't want that on my conscious. To me they should have help at least until someone came that was on duty. When you get that desensitized, and feel nothing for a hurt human being, especially a pregnant woman, you need to change jobs.

 

[Malissa]

I do not think there was anything they could have done while off duty without any gear. I find it sad that so many others do not see it that way. It is amazing what people seem to think an EMT can do or should do.

Maybe if they would have gone to the back to wait with the woman the perception would have been changed but maybe not, the perception may have then became that it was their fault she died because they messed something up.

I think they where pretty much screwed no matter what decision they made.

 

[Malissa]

I did read that comment and situations like that scare me. It gives all of us a bad name.

The shooting also happened after the guy got into a fight on the corner because he was denied entry into a night club. He definitely was not innocent but he still did not deserve to die. It is sad that the public comment focus on their belief that the guy died because of bad karma and there is no focus that the shooter is still on the loose.

 

[medic417]

I do not think there was anything they could have done while off duty without any gear. I find it sad that so many others do not see it that way. It is amazing what people seem to think an EMT can do or should do.

Maybe if they would have gone to the back to wait with the woman the perception would have been changed but maybe not, the perception may have then became that it was their fault she died because they messed something up.

I think they where pretty much screwed no matter what decision they made.

Your right nothing they could do w/o gear. But they could have gone to her side. Started proper positioning. By acting professional and busy the public's perception on the events would have been much better. Would there still have been accusations? Probably. But some action is much easier to defend than no action.

 

[Aidey]

Did anyone else see this comment about "EMT neglect"?

I didn't, but what I find strange about the comment is that what about thinking they were having a heart attack or a stroke was preventing them from getting up off the floor? I'm not saying I think the person was faking, just that I don't see the logic.

Malissa - It was someone in his party that was denied entry, and then while the group was standing on the side of the street, someone got mad because they wanted to park where the group was standing. It was someone in that car that did the shooting.

 

[Aidey]

Your right nothing they could do w/o gear. But they could have gone to her side. Started proper positioning. By acting professional and busy the public's perception on the events would have been much better. Would there still have been accusations? Probably. But some action is much easier to defend than no action.

Wait a second, so we should encourage the public's misconceptions about what we can and cant do by looking busy? Initially your logic made sense to me, but the more I think about it, the more I think we should not be playing into the stereotypes just to keep people happy. While it takes a lot more effort, educating the public on the reality of the EMTs capabilities is much better than letting them continue to think we can resuscitate people with car batteries, and pens.

 

[Cory]

WOAH! Now wait a minute, everyone re-read the first sentence of the report:

NEW YORK – Jason Green had already gained notoriety last year as a New York City paramedic accused of walking away from an ailing pregnant woman who later died.

Now if this is the case, it kinda changes things. I think it's time that reporters learn the difference between EMT and Paramedic.

 

[Shishkabob]

He wasn't a Paramedic, the reporter is just an ignorant person, much like most of the people commenting in those stories.

 

[rhan101277]

Actually asthma, seizure, heart attack, what ever it was had they just went and held the patients hand while waiting for the ambulance the public would have viewed them in a positive light.

Yeah this goes back to, you can be the best paramedic out there and if someone dies they are more likely to sue you than if you are a terrible paramedic but were very nice to their family member. I know suing may not be an issue here, but as the above poster said it would bring a more positive light on them. It is something to keep in the back of your mind on calls.

 

[CAOX3]

The comments on that website are disgusting.

 

[firecoins]

This was 1 of 2 EMT-B/dispatchers working at a dispatch center and not in an ambulance when the asthma attack occurred. They were just getting coffee.

 

[AtalantaAsh]

As stated before, I think that the public is going to think whatever, no matter what we do. I'm an EMT-B and if it was seizures I def. would have done what I was taught, which is to not restrain, but make sure that they won't, if it's violent convulsions, hit anything. I was told in class that only nurses and doctors have a duty to act when off duty, but I'm under the reasoning that I'm trained in this area, while a nurse that responds could be a... idk... umm... idk anything with an unrelated specialty to emergency care. It's not just that they were EMT-Bs without equipment, what could a EMT-P do without equipment??? Also, yes the media and public need to be educated in the difference between EMT-B, EMT-I and EMT-P.

 

[CAOX3]

There is no due process in the court of public opinion.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

There is no due process in the court of public opinion.

Never a more true statement was made.

It looks like one of those "Danmed if you do, danmed if you don't" situations.

And the sad part is, we have created that situation by making EMS into what it is today and what the public thinks of it today.

 

[Sasha]

I think they were screwed no matter what. They didn't have equipment, they didn't even have a freaking ambulance! They could've held her hand, but I could totally see people getting angry "Do something! Don't just stand their and hold her hand!" and then the headlines would read "Off duty EMTs Hold Dying Pregnant Woman's Hand Instead of Attempting to Save Her" and then the public would still be up in arms, possibly gotten violent against them while they were in the coffee shop holding her hand.

 

[medic417]

I think they were screwed no matter what. They didn't have equipment, they didn't even have a freaking ambulance! They could've held her hand, but I could totally see people getting angry "Do something! Don't just stand their and hold her hand!" and then the headlines would read "Off duty EMTs Hold Dying Pregnant Woman's Hand Instead of Attempting to Save Her" and then the public would still be up in arms, possibly gotten violent against them while they were in the coffee shop holding her hand.

As I replied to someone else that focused on my statement of holding hand is that holding hand = acting like you are trying to help. People see you taking action they feel better. As long as you look like you are helping, public perception would have been much better. Yes there will always be those that claim more should have been done and that occurs everyday on just about every serious call. But as a supervisor if you at least went to the patient and gave an accurate report it would be easier to back you than if you just dialed 911 then returned to your coffee if there was a complaint filed.