Education levels

Do you agree with the first post

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fortsmithman

fortsmithman

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I've been thinking and this is what I think the education requirements should be for the following

EMT 2 Year diploma (Canada) Associates degree (USA)

Paramedic Bachelors degree

Critical Care Paramedic Masters Degree
 
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I put the last option in the poll for those who do not want to improve. When in fact we need to be constatly improving the profession. Upgrading our education so that we could be the best we can be and the pt's will have the best care possible. That's just my opinion and I'm only a student on board with my service.
 
If you think all that should happen, there would have to be a drastic pay raise. I mean, look at the EMT-B's now, most of them aren't getting as much pay as a person flipping burgers at McDonalds.
 
If the profession is better educated then there should be higher pay for higher education. With higher educational standards we would be considered without any hesitation by other health care groups as a bona health care profession.
 
dodgemt said:
If you think all that should happen, there would have to be a drastic pay raise. I mean, look at the EMT-B's now, most of them aren't getting as much pay as a person flipping burgers at McDonalds.
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The person flipping burgers at McDonalds may actually have more "hours of training" than an EMT-B. However, ambulance services and McDonalds both realize this for what it is and do practice the turnover prinicple to keep costs low. They know many will either move on and a few ambitious people might actually move up with education to take on more responsibility. Of course, some prefer to be EMT-Bs just like some prefer to flip burgers. They assume no extra responsibility or are just waiting for something else better to come along.
 
Instead of CC how about Doctor with Pre Hospital Medical Specialty?
 
^
MD/DO specialized in prehospital medicine with enough members to do more than the most critical of crticial CCTs (which are already done in some areas) would be cost prohibitive.
 
Im not so sure about a 4 yr. Here's my theory, and it may just be because I'm younger

1. 4 years of school... for what. advanced math classes and things that you probably won't ever need in the field. I've met so many pharmacists that took ridiculous amounts of math and English and have never used it in the pharmacy setting. I have yet to meet a technician or a pharmacist that needs calculus or trig to solve a basic algebra question. its all ratios, multiplication, and division. ya don't need 6 years of math you'll probably forget.

2. In SB, I currently make more as an RX tech than i would as a medic... this is absurd of course as being a medic is much more intense and requires more skills. And I got my license by just studying a book and working as a clerk in a pharmacy. I took the PTCB (same deal as the NREMT) and passed. No formal schooling was required. medics need to be paid higher than myself. they should at least have a nurses salary.. which is about 30-35 bucks an hour... but AMR and other agencies surely dont want to pay that!

3. Being a medic is like being a nurse... you shouldnt have to get a 4 yr or 2 yr to have to get into school. It's a specialized course... just like someone who is in radiology, or lab, or RT, or pharmacy (exception to pharmacists). all ya need is some pre reqs and specialized schooling. skip all the BS classes and get right to it.


then again... i do believe that schooling is important and that everyone should have the best education possible. But sometimes, i just look at things and wonder why things are done the way they are

p.s. - please don't eat me alive on this one. remember im still young here and have some wisdom to be gained :blush:
 
DV_EMT said:
3. Being a medic is like being a nurse... you shouldnt have to get a 4 yr or 2 yr to have to get into school. It's a specialized course... just like someone who is in radiology, or lab, or RT, or pharmacy (exception to pharmacists). all ya need is some pre reqs and specialized schooling. skip all the BS classes and get right to it.
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I disagree with you here.

While each area has its specific focus, the foundation each profession builds enhances that specialty.

Nurse: requires a 2 year degree with a Bachelors preferred and the understanding that is only the beginning of their training/education.

Nurse Practitioner: Masters with a doctorate soon to be required.

Respiratory Thereapy: Associates degree required with Bachelors preferred in several areas as it may become the entry level requirement in a few years.

Radiology, Lab: Minimum of two year degree with a Bachelors or Masters preferred.

Speech, OT: Minimum of a Bachelors with Masters preferred

Physical Therapy: Minimum of a Masters with Doctorate preferred.

Paramedic: a few "hours of training" at a votech school with the job ready "skills" emphasis and little education.


There are not BS classes. Every class taken serves a purpose if none other than for reading comprehension.

Without a well rounded and solid foundation or just relying on specialized training, one will be dependent on the skills of that training and lack the knowledge to be flexible in the ever changing world of medicine. We have already seen this in EMS.
 
I think what should happen is that they need to remove the title of a medic as EMT-P... because the T in that states that they are a technician. generally tech positions are supposedly lower on the "totem pole". If they want to bump up the standards and education of paramedics, then they should just give them a different title. something like PMD or idk. In doing so, it would be like completely renovating the idea(s) of what it means to be a medic
 
DV_EMT said:
I think what should happen is that they need to remove the title of a medic as EMT-P... because the T in that states that they are a technician. generally tech positions are supposedly lower on the "totem pole". If they want to bump up the standards and education of paramedics, then they should just give them a different title. something like PMD or idk. In doing so, it would be like completely renovating the idea(s) of what it means to be a medic
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I thought in a few years the EMT-P would be called Paramedic with the EMT dropped from the title.
 
fortsmithman said:
I thought in a few years the EMT-P would be called Paramedic with the EMT dropped from the title.
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You are right, there will be new national standards coming. Incorporating more training for pulse oximetry for EMT-B's and additional training for medics.

The pay is sad though, I make much more than a paramedic and all I do is fix cell phone equipment, pull and replace parts and troubleshoot DC systems and a variety of other stuff. I do have a associates degree, but you can get the same degree for paramedic.

Only one state requires a paramedic to have a two year degree and this is Colorado, they need to make it nationwide. I don't know what people are looking for to increase pay, but something needs to happen or the brightest paramedics will move on.

What I would like to know is how come paramedics can't make what a RN does. I know medics are trained on total care like RN's but still.
 
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So if the issue is that some people believe that EMT's are under-trained and that something more is needed than a 3 week accelerated course... no disagreements here! That is my biggest problem with EMT's in my area. They take their 150 hours and BOOM they are EMT's and can start treating patients. But if you work EMS with only that knowledge... well I am afraid. More is needed IMHO... BUT NOT A 2 YEAR COURSE AND A DEGREE! it's not practical for the field. My suggestion has always been that all EMT students are required to take a series of classes, including:

A&P (50 Hours)
Basic Cardiology (50 Hours)
ICS 200 (8 Hours)
EVOC (24 Hours)
Ride Time with a Preceptor (50 Hours)
Hospital Time (25 hours)
in addition to the Standard EMT Course, which would be expanded to 200-250hours to accomadate the addition of Multi-Lumin Airways, pulse oximetry, and several other meds (ASA, benadryl, epi, to name a few) to our Scope.
Plus you could throw in some awarness level classes that I believe all Emergency Respondes should have (like HazMat awareness, Water Rescue Awareness, etc...) so that they are not a liability on these types of calls.

Once we complete all these courses (400 hours-ish) then we can test to a national standard. CEU's should be 24 a year, minimum.
 
^
Err, Oregon requires an AA as well.
 
rhan101277 said:
Only one state requires a paramedic to have a two year degree and this is Colorado, they need to make it nationwide. I don't know what people are looking for to increase pay, but something needs to happen or the brightest paramedics will move on.
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When did Colorado start requiring a 2 year degree? The last time I looked it was still 1000 hours. If the two year degree, hopefully in EMS, is now required it would be cause for celebration as now 2 or 50 states require a degree.


rhan101277 said:
What I would like to know is how come paramedics can't make what a RN does. I know medics are trained on total care like RN's but still.
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Not even close. Two very different focus of care. The Paramedic is primarily limited to emergent events for a short period of time in the prehospital area.

Paramedic training can also be as little as 500 hours or done in just 3 months in some states which is just 1/3 of the clinical hours some RN programs require and that doesn't include all the book learning stuff.
 
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Here in Canada namely in Ontario the program length for Primary Care Paramedic (which is the same as the EMT-I in the USA) is 2 yrs.
 
JPINFV said:
MD/DO specialized in prehospital medicine with enough members to do more than the most critical of crticial CCTs (which are already done in some areas) would be cost prohibitive.
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Not only CCTs. Some cities inthe US have physicians responding in fly-cars to certain 911 calls.
 
^
It's rare and a lot of times those are EM residents or EMS fellows.
 
rhan101277 said:
You are right, there will be new national standards coming. Incorporating more training for pulse oximetry for EMT-B's and additional training for medics.

The pay is sad though, I make much more than a paramedic and all I do is fix cell phone equipment, pull and replace parts and troubleshoot DC systems and a variety of other stuff. I do have a associates degree, but you can get the same degree for paramedic.

Only one state requires a paramedic to have a two year degree and this is Colorado, they need to make it nationwide. I don't know what people are looking for to increase pay, but something needs to happen or the brightest paramedics will move on.

What I would like to know is how come paramedics can't make what a RN does. I know medics are trained on total care like RN's but still.
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There are actually many states that require an associcate degree. In fact Kansas does and has for a few years.

As well, the new titles have taken effect, as my new National Registry card no longer has te title EMT-Paramedic; rather just Paramedic.... Yea! No, more of this .. You are an EMT!
Nope...


R/r 911
 
Ridryder911 said:
There are actually many states that require an associcate degree. In fact Kansas does and has for a few years.


R/r 911
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Many states?

Oregon and Kansas (forgot that one for the MICT) are just two.

Texas offers a license for degreed but it is not required.

What other states?
 
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