Athiests in EMS

[akflightmedic]

This thread is for a casual discussion amongst atheists in EMS, and whether/how this affects your views on your profession.

I also wonder whether you have ever felt friction with partners or members of EMS about this issue. I've found most people to be fairly respectful of it, if a little condescending at times. It's more often my sexuality or left wing views that get me into trouble!

I have to agree, I have experienced some friction as an atheist in EMS, especially when I tell my opinion of others beliefs when asked; for example this one time when discussing Christianity with my EMS coworkers inside the EMS station while on duty, I told this example as my summation of the Christian religion:

"Over a billion people claim to believe that a 2000 year old cosmic, Jewish zombie, born of a virgin mother; will offer you eternal life if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force, present on all humans because a woman who was made from the rib of a man, who was constructed of dust, was convinced by a talking snake, to eat a cursed apple, from a magical tree growing in a mystical garden a little while after the universe was created around 6000 years ago."

The were not ok with my description and insisted I had it all wrong. It led to some friction between me, an atheist in EMS and my EMS co workers while on EMS duty in the EMS station, but it did lead to some interesting discussions.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

I have to agree, I have experienced some friction as an atheist in EMS, especially when I tell my opinion of others beliefs when asked; for example this one time when discussing Christianity with my EMS coworkers inside the EMS station while on duty, I told this example as my summation of the Christian religion:

"Over a billion people claim to believe that a 2000 year old cosmic, Jewish zombie, born of a virgin mother; will offer you eternal life if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force, present on all humans because a woman who was made from the rib of a man, who was constructed of dust, was convinced by a talking snake, to eat a cursed apple, from a magical tree growing in a mystical garden a little while after the universe was created around 6000 years ago."

Well, that is mostly accurate, but its not the nicest way of putting it. I wouldn't have any problems working with atheists. Doesn't bother me in the least, as long as they aren't being intentionally offensive.

 

[Asimurk]

Personal beliefs interfering with professionalism can be an issue, but I'm having trouble grasping how lack of faith would be a problem for EMS. ":censored::censored::censored::censored: happens," either you're able to get over it or you aren't. Though if it were to ever come up, I'm guessing I'd just obfuscate.

 

[rhan101277]

I am a christian, however I don't go around trying to sell my views or what not. I had a lady ask me to pray for her last week while we were in the back of the ambulance and I did so. I did not pray out loud or anything though, I was not sure who she wanted me to pray to either.

It does concern me that their are people in EMS who do not believe any God exists or higher being etc. especially after taking A&P I and A&P II. The human body is incredibly complicated from the way we hear, see, think etc. I guess I could open a can of worms but I will just leave it at that.

 

[Sassafras]

Why should it concern you that there are those in EMS that don't believe in a higher power though? As long as we treat our patients respectfully and get the job done, what our beliefs are regarding how we came to be here matters not. What does matter is what we will do with the time we are given on this green earth. And maybe that we leave it better than when we got here but that has little to do with EMS specifically.

 

[JJR512]

Why should it concern you that there are those in EMS that don't believe in a higher power though? As long as we treat our patients respectfully and get the job done, what our beliefs are regarding how we came to be here matters not. What does matter is what we will do with the time we are given on this green earth. And maybe that we leave it better than when we got here but that has little to do with EMS specifically.

I don't think his concern was that our patient care will suffer because we do not believe in a supreme deity. I think his concern is that we must not be rational people if the beauty of the natural world has not convinced us that there must be a supreme deity.

What rhan101277 fails to understand is that people who do not believe in supreme deities are just as concerned about the rationality of people who do believe in them.

However, there's really no place for this particular aspect of the discussion to go other than to degenerate into a battle of which side is right and which side is wrong. So I propose that rhan101277 was right about this can of worms, and we should really try to not go there.

 

[Sassafras]

However, there's really no place for this particular aspect of the discussion to go other than to degenerate into a battle of which side is right and which side is wrong. So I propose that rhan101277 was right about this can of worms, and we should really try to not go there.

I'm going to have to agree with this but have to say I love that you used the word "degenerate". Self admitted word fettish here LOL.

 

[firemedic07]

im not holy at all. but when asked if ill pray with them ill be silent. but no one has called me out on it so i really dont care. but i did stay at a holiday inn last night

 

[brentoli]

im not holy at all. but when asked if ill pray with them ill be silent. but no one has called me out on it so i really dont care. but i did stay at a holiday inn last night

Truthfully, spiritual care can do as much for someone as an intervention does. I don't mean sprititual in the form of the Trinity or Allah or what have you, rather the care that comes from the care, love, and touch of another person. When someone wants you to pray with them, as AK mentioned, really they just want a hand to hold and a reassurance. Whats the harm if your not interupting important tasks?

 

[akflightmedic]

It does concern me that their are people in EMS who do not believe any God exists or higher being etc. especially after taking A&P I and A&P II. The human body is incredibly complicated from the way we hear, see, think etc. I guess I could open a can of worms but I will just leave it at that.

Your opinion is welcome of course as I hold a similar concern which is how people can be in EMS AFTER taking an AnP I and II class or any other advanced college level science course. I simply do not know how they cling to those beliefs with all that science stuff and book lernin'...so know that you are not alone in your concerns, especially to the converse.

 

[fma08]

IN MY OPINION: We are here to do a professional job. Provide medical care. To do that to the best of our ability requires keeping a scientific mind about things. I'm not about to start praying with a patient if it hinders my care of the person. I will bow my head and close my eyes with family after running a code if they so desire because at that point they are the patient and it will make them feel better.

Another topic on the same level is abortion. I believe abortion is medically necessary in some cases (to save the mother's life) and will advocate for it in those instances. However, religiously affiliated hospitals (some anyway) often will not even give that as a treatment option to patients because it interferes with their personal beliefs.

My overall OPINION is this. Just like there is (should be) a separation of church and state, so too should there be a separation of church and medicine.

Religion is not objective. Medicine must be.

 

[HotelCo]

When asked what my religious views are by a patient, I simply tell them that I'm an atheist. I'm not ashamed of it, and I don't try and hide it from people... I'm actually proud of it. Proud of the fact that I questioned what I was taught, thought it through, and arrived at the only rational conclusion: that there is no god.

.

 

[firecoins]

It does concern me that their are people in EMS who do not believe any God exists or higher being etc. especially after taking A&P I and A&P II. The human body is incredibly complicated from the way we hear, see, think etc. I guess I could open a can of worms but I will just leave it at that.

After taking any advanced science class, I am always concerned how anyone can hang on to the concept of God or Gods. THe concept of forming an hypothesis and testing it seems to be the best of way generating truth.

 

[Silver_Star]

I tend to keep my beliefs to myself. And I try to keep it that way when asked by patients and coworkers. Though many of my coworkers attempt to push their brand on me (one woman in particular) I try to tell her I'm not interested as nicely as possible until she starts getting pushy and yelling at me... then I tell her where to shove it.

 

[Youngin]

I'm agnostic - I find it equally as difficult to believe in an ultimate creator as to believe that everything that exists just...appeared.

Anyways, If a patient ever did ask me to pray with them, I think I'd do what I could to oblige them while still doing my job. I haven't even started EMT-B classes yet, but I'd imagine that I would want to do is only comforting the patient, right?

As far as any confrontations or discussions that I've had with people about religion, and there have been a few, I just always try to be respectful. We've all met obnoxious atheists and obnoxious religious people, and I'm sure most of us get annoyed by each of them. It annoys me when someone thinks less of another person just because they believe in a god or because they don't believe in a god.

<end of ramble>

 

[usafmedic45]

When asked about my religious beliefs, I tell the patient what I think they want to hear (which is normally "Yes, I do have a personal relationship with Jay-sus!"). I see no benefit to telling them the truth about my lack of faith. Usually I just tell people I am Episcopalian.

It does concern me that their are people in EMS who do not believe any God exists or higher being etc. especially after taking A&P I and A&P II. The human body is incredibly complicated from the way we hear, see, think etc. I guess I could open a can of worms but I will just leave it at that.

It concerns me that someone can honestly believe that there is a just and loving God (such as the Christian God is described to be) after seeing what we see as part of our job. You see the handiwork of god in the complexity of the human body, I see the process of evolution. I'm not going to convince you that you're wrong and I can't legally recommend anti-psychotic medication because unfortunately religion is the one delusion that is protected by the Bill of Rights.

whether/how this affects your views on your profession.

Bear in mind that I am a complete cynic and misanthrope.

I thought of this after being told by multiple folks with years in the field that "if you are not religious now, you will be or you will fail" under the assumption that no one that did not believive in God could stand the stress and perhaps feelings of powerlessness (as in when a pt is going to die no matter what you or the hospital can do).

I've been told that too....usually by weak people who can't summon the inner strength to deal with their own problems without blaming someone else or having a good excuse. Apparently "The invisible man I believe in doesn't want me to succeed" is a valid excuse in some circles. Sounds like the start to an insanity defense to me to be quite honest, but then again. On the flip side, you have the folks who credit their success to their chosen deity and assume that if you don't do the same, you will fail. It's kind of a weird reversed fundamental attribution error, which is best demonstrated by how football players seldmo curse God when they fail (at least not publicly) but they always want to thank their homeboy Jesus when they scored that game winning touchdown. Religion is actually a lot like football: even if you don't agree or root for the same team, it's probably best to keep it to yourself unless you really want to deal with the consequences. Speaking as a resident of Indianapolis who doesn't root for the Colts (I'm the Switzerland of the NFL: I support no team, choosing to remain neutral), I am quite good at this.

I actually am the exact opposite of what those people told you: I started out wanting to be a minister and now I'm an atheist thanks- in large part- to my experiences in health care.

 

[Melclin]

I started out wanting to be a minister .

Really.......woah.

Whenever my blood ROFL concentration drops bellow the normal range, I will think of that

 

[firecoins]

Religion has never been brought up by a patient. I of course don't bring it up.

 

[usafmedic45]

Really.......woah.

Whenever my blood ROFL concentration drops bellow the normal range, I will think of that

Yeah, I was actually planning on being a Presbyterian minister from the time I was about 12 until just before my 20th birthday. I got into EMS as a way to help people and pay my living expenses while working on my bachelors degree. My friends died in a car accident I worked and it was a life-changing experience to say the least.

 

[JJR512]

I am starting to have doubts about being agnostic. Now there is a statement loaded with irony if I ever saw one...Anyway, the direction I am leaning is not towards atheism, either.

Actually, I shouldn't say "leaning"...maybe being pulled? Or more like falling into. I don't know.

For a long time, I have felt that religious people have something I don't, and that's a sense of inner peace, or serenity, or ease. They might not always act like it on the outside, but when I get to know someone who believes in their religion, it seems that they take comfort in their beliefs. And that's something I lack, but want. The trouble for me has always been that intellectually, I could not fathom believing in anything of a religious nature, some kind of supernatural or supreme deity, entity, or power.

But some things have happened to me during the last week or so. Pretty much right before I posted the "Somebody please just shoot me" comment in the 100% Directionless thread. Because at that moment, I really did want to die, so I posted that, knowing it wouldn't be taken seriously, yet meant absolutely seriously. I feel like my life is already over, anyway. I need help. I used to see a therapist, and shouldn't have stopped, but I did, because I was stupid. I've made an appointment to see him but that won't be for another two weeks, and in the meantime, I am in serious danger of not making it to that appointment. I need someone, or something, to turn to.

I can't afford much alcohol, so rather than getting drunk for the next two weeks, I tried to find some other options, and realized that when religious people have problems, they pray. I can't pray. I can't sit there and project thoughts at some entity I don't seriously believe in, which is really a lie because I do it all the time...How many agnostics and atheists actually do "talk" to God? "Oh God no," or, "Please, God," or, "God damn it," those are all examples of talking to God, and I think those are things that many people say, even if they don't really think they believe in God. But anyway, to get back on the point of this paragraph, I don't really know about praying right now, but I figured I could take an intermediate step and go see a priest.

Have you ever seen a movie in which a character realizes his problem is so bad that it can only be solved with help or guidance from God, and the only way he can get it is to talk to God in church, as if He won't hear you anywhere else? So the character goes into a church, when there's no mass, and the church is empty. He sits in one of the pews and prays, or just talks, or thinks in his head. After a few minutes, a priest comes into the church from some side room, and notices the man, and walks over to him. The priest asks if everything is OK, and the man says yes, but starts describing his problem anyway, and the priest usually has something very simple yet surprisingly helpful to say. And the man leaves, with a clearer sense of purpose in mind, now knowing what he must do to solve the problem.

Well, that's what I want.

Except I guess it doesn't work like that in real life. I went by a church and the doors were locked. I guess God wasn't home. I had to call and make an appointment. I'm going tomorrow, I'll check back here and let you know if I've found the path to enlightenment or not...