As of dec 20 2012 all medic programs go to 2 years

[bajamedic]

I don't see recession ending anytime before 2025

Now is a time when we should be putting people to work in areas such as EMS and fire. EMS and fire protection and nursing for that matter are ares we we should be flooding the market with applicants who are willing to work for a close to minimum wage. They are service jobs, in many other countries the type of jobs that others don't want. The standard has no need to change, this is not market driven. Most areas have hospitals within 10 mins of most response areas. America should be filling EMTs courses and Medic courses with the unemployed, putting people back to work. I know of many LE agencies that hire with a high school diploma. That is why an LEO cannot be an expert witness or even testify to MVA in California. I think this agenda will die a hard death as we see less and less money for public safety. Most of the general public have no clue what a Paramedic is and just sees them as ambulance drivers.

I am amazed at that lack of concern for the severe lack of funding that is right around the corner. You are not going to turn EMS into nursing. It will never pay the big bucks. If we go to socialized health care it will be a 10.00 dollar an hour job. As soon as it interferes with system delivery the fire service will force changes on the local level that will shut down private EMS.

No one is going to pay private EMS the money to pay 25.00 an hour. States and Cities will opt our of the NR and go back to testing at the local level.

This may not be the case in areas such as Texas where the state is solvent. But in the big cities where 90 percent of EMS runs don't pay. No way.

 

[usalsfyre]

Bajamedic, I suggest you stop drinking whatever Kool-Aid your partaking in and wake up. If paramedics are working in basic spots I would say the market is ALREADY flooded. Go take a peek around a nursing board and see how the job market is in that field right now.

As for it being "street EMS" and "law enforcement is way harder", what makes medicine practiced out of the hospital so much different than what's practiced in the hospital? Other allied health professions are appalled at the autonomy granted for the educational level of EMS.

I'm sorry this is a setback to your dream of being a hero on the BRT. But it's the right thing. Get with the program, or get out.

Edited to add: Southern California is not representative of EMS in the majority of the US. So basing anything of that area is flawed to begin with.

 

[Smash]

As for it being "street EMS" and "law enforcement is way harder", what makes medicine practiced out of the hospital so much different than what's practiced in the hospital? Other allied health professions are appalled at the autonomy granted for the educational level of EMS.

I think that is the crux of the issue there. It would appear to me that this person is unwilling, or more likely unable, to practice medicine, hence the rant against education in EMS. Mind you, to my mind practising medicine in the field is far harder because I don't have all the tools. toys and support that comes with being in a hospital. Maybe that is just me.

I am amazed at that lack of concern for the severe lack of funding that is right around the corner. You are not going to turn EMS into nursing. It will never pay the big bucks. If we go to socialized health care it will be a 10.00 dollar an hour job. As soon as it interferes with system delivery the fire service will force changes on the local level that will shut down private EMS.

No one is going to pay private EMS the money to pay 25.00 an hour. States and Cities will opt our of the NR and go back to testing at the local level.

I had to LOL at this. I always enjoy the demented paranoia that comes with the spittle flecked ranting about "socialized health care". I live under such a terrible, communistic system and you are right, no-one will pay me $25/hour. Because I wouldn't get out of bed for that little.

Have a look at pretty much any country with socialized health care and try to find one where their EMS staff are paid worse than in the US.

At the same time the US consistently provides worse health outcomes for greater cost than any other developed country who have socialized health care.

I'll second Usalsfyre - stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[MrBrown]

Brown agrees with that Smash fellow

Brown is dissapointed for Smash that the Melbourne or the Alfred do not allow him to nick at CT machine and tow it behind that Vanbusprinter he drives

 

[dixie_flatline]

All I want to know is... how did he manage to argue against more education when he had two errors with the wrong their/there in two different posts?

 

[medichopeful]

All I want to know is... how did he manage to argue against more education when he had two errors with the wrong their/there in two different posts?

It actually seems to go along with him or her!

 

[Handsome Robb]

I think this may be the first post I have ever seen advocating lowering our educations standards...

Lay off the crack pipe? My guess is he/she is enrolled in a program that they will be graduating from after the changeover happens and their program is not accredited...

 

[Smash]

Brown agrees with that Smash fellow

Brown is dissapointed for Smash that the Melbourne or the Alfred do not allow him to nick at CT machine and tow it behind that Vanbusprinter he drives

I have enough doughnuts every day without adding a Doughnut of Death to them!

 

[fortsmithman]

If we go to socialized health care it will be a 10.00 dollar an hour job.

I thought that's what the wage for EMS is in the USA. Canadian EMS makes quite a bit more than that. To be a ALS medic that take 3 years minimum.

 

[fast65]

All I want to know is... how did he manage to argue against more education when he had two errors with the wrong their/there in two different posts?

That was my initial thought as well...but I was willing to overlook it due to the sheer amount of falderal that exists in the original post, and subsequent posts by the OP.

 

[beandip4all]

Allot of departments are going back to volunteers.

:glare:
ahem...

also, anyone else think OP is just a troll?

 

[SanDiegoEmt7]

I am amazed at that lack of concern for the severe lack of funding that is right around the corner. You are not going to turn EMS into nursing. It will never pay the big bucks. If we go to socialized health care it will be a 10.00 dollar an hour job. As soon as it interferes with system delivery the fire service will force changes on the local level that will shut down private EMS.

Fire that is supported by tax dollar funded city budgets? When private companies can come in and offer cities free contract, simply giving them the exclusive coverage rights and letting them bill at contracted rates.

 

[bajamedic]

I don't think any of you have been doing this very long?

I am not in any P-Programs. I went to P school in 1991. I am not arguing against education, I have more certs than most guys, my bookshelf is full, very full. If you guys want to be doctors, go for it. EMS has paid and never will pay strong wages. If you guys had been around the last 25 years in the ems trade you would see that. The good companies are gone. Most EMS runs are non paying runs. I am looking at investing in private EMS for retirement and as all owners and investors, I want cheap labor. It is one thing to be FF Medic, more training, more work load. Private medics do about half of what fire service medics do. The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

My preceptor told me up front, "if you start to struggle with what is being asked of you your gone" out of 28 guys 6 got past the preceptors, and three of them should have failed but there had private EMS preceptors. Its not the book work, its the on the job 2:30 in the morning MVA with entrapment that needs to be the focus of the training.
Not some college lecture theory A&P or the like. It is not the clinical area that is lacking. Nurses wonder why they can't get jobs. Its because the schools don't teach to the job market. When asked to start and IV they can't, WHY BECAUSE THE SPENT MONTHS STUDYING CRAP THEY DON'T USE ON THE JOB, SO THE EMPLOYER CAN'T USE THEM. EMS training needs to go back into the hands of the local EMS boards, and the OJT needs to be the focus.

 

[usalsfyre]

Please get the hell away from EMS. I hope to God you never treat anyone close to me.

I wonder how many patients you've harmed because you don't understand what your doing.

 

[Shishkabob]

It is one thing to be FF Medic, more training, more work load. Private medics do about half of what fire service medics do. The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

You're a regular comedian, baja. There's not a single FF/medic in California that can do half of what I can on an ambulance. You're in California. California, as a whole, sucks in EMS. Don't compare your crap state with places that actually try to care for their patients and give them good care.



I highly doubt you're a medic, but if you are, I can't wait till you retire. We don't need people like you in charge of other peoples health.

 

[Sasha]

Didnt Chimpie ask us not to feed the trolls?

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk

 

[JPINFV]

Didnt Chimpie ask us not to feed the trolls?

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk

It's a lot like feeding squirrels and other small fluffy wild animals. You know you aren't supposed to, but they're so cute that you just can't help yourself.

 

[m0nster986]

Oh, I almost forgot to add that I really hope that the fire service does NOT fight this. Why? Because, even though I am a firefighter, I believe that to get the recognition as a profession EMS should be totally seperate from the fire service. Again, just my $0.02.

I :wub: you!

As for the OP, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

 

[crazycajun]

I am not in any P-Programs. I went to P school in 1991. I am not arguing against education, I have more certs than most guys, my bookshelf is full, very full. If you guys want to be doctors, go for it. EMS has paid and never will pay strong wages. If you guys had been around the last 25 years in the ems trade you would see that. The good companies are gone. Most EMS runs are non paying runs. I am looking at investing in private EMS for retirement and as all owners and investors, I want cheap labor. It is one thing to be FF Medic, more training, more work load. Private medics do about half of what fire service medics do. The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

My preceptor told me up front, "if you start to struggle with what is being asked of you your gone" out of 28 guys 6 got past the preceptors, and three of them should have failed but there had private EMS preceptors. Its not the book work, its the on the job 2:30 in the morning MVA with entrapment that needs to be the focus of the training.
Not some college lecture theory A&P or the like. It is not the clinical area that is lacking. Nurses wonder why they can't get jobs. Its because the schools don't teach to the job market. When asked to start and IV they can't, WHY BECAUSE THE SPENT MONTHS STUDYING CRAP THEY DON'T USE ON THE JOB, SO THE EMPLOYER CAN'T USE THEM. EMS training needs to go back into the hands of the local EMS boards, and the OJT needs to be the focus.

UUUmmmmmmm...... You do understand those certificates you made using ARCSoft Certificate Studio do not really mean anything don't you? And yes, I have been in the EMS system for over 25 years. I have made an exceptional living, own my home, have 2 fairly new vehicles, a new motorcycle, a boat, have paid for 2 college educations, have a great retirement coming, make over 60K a year in SOUTH CAROLINA and am currently in school to get my Bachelors Degree in Emergency Medicine. I plan to stay in EMS until they throw me out or bury me and I demand to be transported to the grave in my Ambulance. There is nothing wrong with expanding the required education.

 

[AlphaButch]

If most of your runs are non-pay, you're doing it wrong or your transporting people who don't need transport (look into an agency agreement with a cab company). They may not be paid by the patient, but your agency should be getting paid. If they aren't getting paid, why are you looking at getting into the owner/investor side of this? If they aren't getting paid, it's just a matter of time until a private company makes an unrefusable offer (exclusive, no tax $$).

Paramedic "skills" don't take 2 years to teach, but I don't want someone who can only remember steps 1-10 or has to work out of manual. I want employees who know more than just "how", I want them to understand "why".

Some services may want "monkeys" to simply "load and go", this isn't directed towards any individual, as it's normally agency or contract dictated. A progressive service wants employees that have critical thinking skills, are pro-education and will be able to adapt to the changes on the horizon.

Paramedic practitioner style and "treat and release" style programs are starting to gain recognition in the USA as we move towards becoming a more "socialized" industry (lack of a better term). In order to prepare for actually providing medical care in the field, education standards must be raised. Other than those providers that actively seek to educate themselves, current education standards rarely teach enough for the current "scope" model.