Anatomy & Physiology

[FTRPO]

About a week ago AJ Hidell and I were talking about the importance of A&P via PM. AJ made it very clear that A&P is an important stepping stone to becoming a successful medic. Today was my first day of my BLS class and the instructor stated that when my class ends in September that he will be teaching a paramedic class directly after that in October. If I took advantage of this opportunity assuming that all goes well with this course, I would not be able to take the A&P between my basic and paramedic like AJ had suggested. So, my question is have any of you gone through the paramedic training without A&P? How hard was the course with or without it? I know there have been a lot of discussions about this but I could not find any that related directly to the questions I’m asking just suggestions of what students should do as far as working as a basic or going straight through.

I will not be working as an EMT-B just to get that out of the picture since I have seen it so much in searching the other threads pertaining to going from basic to paramedic.

Thanks in advance to everyone that takes the time to respond.

Thanks again AJ for the previous advice you have shared.

I look forward to your post's!

 

[AJ Hidell]

Most paramedics complete paramedic school without taking any prerequisite education. But they are not half the paramedic they would have been had they had that prerequisite education. There is NO doubt about it.

You can be a paramedic without it. I did. You just have to ask yourself if you just want to be a medic, or if you want to be the best medic you can possibly be. Once you go the shortcut route, the damage is forever done. You can't just go back and take it later and make up for not having done it before. Education doesn't work that way. You only get one chance to build a foundation. After that, you're just putting new siding on a trailer home.

 

[reaper]

Why not take A&P while you are in basic?

 

[mycrofft]

I'm nt a paramedic but I have to respectfully disagree..somewhat.

(Is that sufficiently wimpy or what?).
A&P is something you will learn somewhat by integrated material in a course, but you can and will always be getting little refreshers by reading the professional literature...like EMTLIFE (heh heh).
You could take paramedic first then have your epiphanies in Anatomy class (when did they combine A and P? I had to take a semester of each plus organic and bio chem) or take A&P and have your epiphanies in paramedic class...but the second sequence could make for an easier paramedic course, or you could discover another whole field to go into with that knowledge.

 

[JPINFV]

^
Well, I guess it's possible to build the structure of a house and then pour the foundation, but why do things bass ackwards? Probably the same reason why 1st and 2nd years of medical school are all about the foundation courses (biochem, A, P, immuno, pathology, etc) and 3rd and 4th are the clinical rotations (clerkships).

 

[RMSP05]

I think it would be better to take A&P first, although its not required, you will learn alot on how everything works. Im currently taking a Compartive animal Phys for my non EMS major. and that takes how everyhting works, where it is and how it relates to humans and animals. It has thaught me alot. the 5 hours of A&P you had in Basic school can't really compare. I know when i decide to go to paramedic school, im going to take A&P first because there is still alot that i won't know form Comparative animal phys that would be very beneficial. Build the foundation and the walls will last forever. but this is just my opinion

 

[Veneficus]

(Is that sufficiently wimpy or what?).
A&P is something you will learn somewhat by integrated material in a course, but you can and will always be getting little refreshers by reading the professional literature...like EMTLIFE (heh heh).
You could take paramedic first then have your epiphanies in Anatomy class (when did they combine A and P? I had to take a semester of each plus organic and bio chem) or take A&P and have your epiphanies in paramedic class...but the second sequence could make for an easier paramedic course, or you could discover another whole field to go into with that knowledge.

In many colleges, especially the 2 year one I have taught at there seems to be a combined A&P that if taught well, (aka the prof has an interest) it can be quite useful to EMS providers and nurses alike. If it is shortcut or a self taught course, like all shortcuts, it will not work out.

I think it is important to note though that this usually sophmore level class and is the minimum you will need, but certainly not the be all/end all.

Would I suggest a senior level gross anatomy and seperate junior or senior physiology, of course I would. In fact I am trying to get the guyton text as a required physio book for the medic class I help teach at.

The truth is though I have fought long and hard to try and advance the educational standards. I am tired of always losing. So now I appeal directly to potential providers to take it upon themselves to better themselves.

Unfortunately there are many paths in EMS. You can play in the little league, the farm team, or step up to the plate in the major league all star game. The choice is not mandated, it is yours.

AJ is exactly right, education first is definately the easy way. I started at the back room of the FD learning how is was "really done in the street" it is a tough hole to dig out of, requiring exponentially more stress, money, effort, and time away from the family.

Plus if you get a proper education and EMS is not for you or you cannot get a decent paying job, you are well on the way to another healthcare career.

If you get a cert from a mill and later you want to change, you start at the bottom. Possibly with a negative because as an adult learner you have to be "sold" new information, you just don't take it at face value. Even today I have to be very careful in not dismissing "stuff not really needed" as it has a nasty habit of being required for more advanced work or coming up on a test.

Most of us that constantly harp on "proper education" learned the hard way.

Leonardo once said "Poor is the student who doesn't exceed his master."

You can learn from our mistakes or simply repeat them. The choice is completely up to you.

 

[Wee-EMT]

I say take an A&P class for sure. It'll defiantly help out big time. You could always take it online before your October course starts. It may take a couple hours a night to complete, but it'll be worth it.

 

[AJ Hidell]

You could always take it online before your October course starts. It may take a couple hours a night to complete, but it'll be worth it.

Online A&P is rarely accepted for entrance into a collegiate paramedic or nursing program. There is way too much hands-on learning necessary for a competent grasp of the subject matter by distance.

 

[Juxel]

Online A&P is rarely accepted for entrance into a collegiate paramedic or nursing program. There is way too much hands-on learning necessary for a competent grasp of the subject matter by distance.

I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate with you today AJ, it's really nothing personal, you just have been the last one to reply to a lot of posts I'm reading.

The medical school I teach at does not require students to attend any class sessions besides anatomy lab and microbiology lab. Every other lab is optional as are the lectures. Lectures are both broadcast live online and recorded for viewing pleasure. Only about 60% of students show up for class on a regular basis, the rest show up for exams and quizzes. Most show up for labs, even the optional ones, but it certainly isn't required.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Okay, so you are saying that they do accept A&P and Micro, entirely by distance, without laboratory attendance, or that they do not?

 

[JPINFV]

Care to compare your average medical student to your average medic student? I'm willing to bet that the average medical student has a better understanding of their personal learning style and a much greater drive than your average medic student.

 

[JPINFV]

Okay, so you are saying that they do accept A&P and Micro, entirely by distance, without laboratory attendance, or that they do not?

To be fair, I can't think of a single US medical school (allopathic or osteopathic) that requires A/P or micro as a prereq. Instead these are courses taught as a part of the curriculum of the school and tailored to the needs of the student (i.e. more clinical emphasis).

 

[Juxel]

Okay, so you are saying that they do accept A&P and Micro, entirely by distance, without laboratory attendance, or that they do not?

Anatomy and micro they can do by distance but MUST come for the laboratory part.

Physiology, biochem, pathophys, histology, cell bio, etc. can all be done at home if you so choose.

 

[AJ Hidell]

To be fair, I can't think of a single US medical school (allopathic or osteopathic) that requires A/P or micro as a prereq. Instead these are courses taught as a part of the curriculum of the school and tailored to the needs of the student (i.e. more clinical emphasis).

Yeah, I was assuming that s/he was talking about paramedic school, and not medical school.

 

[RMSP05]

Anatomy and micro they can do by distance but MUST come for the laboratory part.

Physiology, biochem, pathophys, histology, cell bio, etc. can all be done at home if you so choose.

How can cell bio be taught at home... isnt there a lab portion to it. i know when i took it we had a lab and a lecture portion to the class. Or how could biochem be taught at home, most science classes have labs included where you do hands on activites to help enhance your knoledge. if you want to teach the lecture at home that is ok, but most of you science classes need to have a lab part attached. Looking back over my 4 years of college, i havent had a science based class that doesn't have a lab portion to the class.

 

[Juxel]

How can cell bio be taught at home... isnt there a lab portion to it.

I don't know who made that decision and it's not a well advertised fact. It's not something I agree with (having my Ph.D. in cell biology), but it is what it is.

 

[HatchetHarry]

Go ahead and go right into the medic course while learning A&P on your own. Purchase a bunch of books and one of those huge sets of flashcards off amazon then study it on your own time. You can also attend a class without being enrolled in it, just find out when large lecture A&P classes are held at your local college and sit in on the lectures. I used to do this with some classes in college before I registered for them later so I could see if the professor was cool or not.