A Nosey One

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MrBrown

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It's 1am on a freezing cold morning in the middle of winter. A harsh blizzard is blowing and you're sent way out into the sticks past the old Peabody place, right at the abandoned general store where the ghost eats souls and down a winding goat track to a rambling old house.

Meanwhile, the helicopter Doctors and Paramedics are tucked up warm in thier bed and won't be avaliable tonight, aren't ya jealous? :D

Upon locating you find a 15 year old female wrapped in a blanket on the couch. She is sweating profusely and the blanket is soaked with sweat. The patient does not acknowledge your presence and there is vomit all over the floor.

The parents relay that about two days previously she had been at school when somebody hit her in the nose with a baseball bat during gym class. Since then she has complained of a headache on and off but has been acting normally and went to school yesterday. Tonight she has vomited several times, said she feelt very nauseous and "spaced out" when sitting in the lounge trying to watch TV. She felt better after having a nap and moved to the couch about an hour ago after waking when she began to vomit.

Initial obs at 1.30am
BP 75/30
RR 14
HR 140
BGL 10mmol (~180 mg/dl)
GCS 13/15
SPO2 98% RA
Temp 37 C (checked twice)
Pupils equal and reactive to light

Repeat obs
BP 112/70
RR 14
HR 160
GCS 7/15
SPO2 98% RA
Temp 37 C (checked twice)
Pupils equal and reactive to light

More obs
BP 160/120
RR 14
HR 180
GCS 13/15
SPO2 98% RA
Temp 37 C (checked twice)
Pupils sluggish and non-reactive

No obvious frank signs of a head injury (CSF leaking, battle/racoon signs, swelling)

What do we think is wrong?
 
Sounds like a closed head injury patient I once had...just throwing that out there.
 
Nope it's not a head injury although that is what everbody seemed to think.
 
meningitis or cancer?
 
Perhaps a whiplash type spinal injury causing neurogenic shock? With the erratic bp and tachycardia I'm wondering about some sort of shock. Wait, is it neurogenic I'm looking for? The one w/ the spinal injuries...yeah that's right. Almost got confused with psychogenic.
 
Veneficus said:
meningitis or cancer?
Click to expand...

what makes you think that and would a wbc of 19 10/9 per litre high band and segmented neutrophils and high erythrocyte sedimentation rate help with a diagnosis at all
 
MrBrown said:
what makes you think that and would a wbc of 19 10/9 per litre high band and segmented neutrophils and high erythrocyte sedimentation rate help with a diagnosis at all
Click to expand...

Injury to the face in that area does give me a high index of suspicion for an infection....but where does the increasing BP and lack of fever fit into that story....hmm.
 
Hmmmmmmmm....yeah, I automatically thought of head injury/concussion. This is very similar to how I presented after my ambulance wreck. Or so I've been told LOL I was pretty outta it, so I don't know for sure.
 
Cawolf86 said:
Injury to the face in that area does give me a high index of suspicion for an infection....but where does the increasing BP and lack of fever fit into that story....hmm.
Click to expand...

Good point. And the increasing BP is driving me away from shock. Isn't it generally; HR-up, BP-down? Except here we have HR-up, BP-up. Unless she is compensating extremely well.

And what's with the pupils becoming sluggish all of a sudden? What size are they?

What I can tell you is that going from 75/30 to 160/120 is not a good thing. If that trend continues, she is gonna stroke out. :P
 
lightsandsirens5 said:
Good point. And the increasing BP is driving me away from shock. Isn't it generally; HR-up, BP-down? Except here we have HR-up, BP-up. Unless she is compensating extremely well.

And what's with the pupils becoming sluggish all of a sudden? What size are they?

What I can tell you is that going from 75/30 to 160/120 is not a good thing. If that trend continues, she is gonna stroke out. :P
Click to expand...

I could blame that on agitation related to the mental status changes, though.

I'm hoping to hear that this is some kind of an endocrine crisis resulting from a smack to the parathyroid. It would be fun to be on the right track...
 
I'm leaning towards an infection with that WBC count. Also, the good doctor is not telling us the circumstances around those VS changes. Is that following treatment? Fluid replacement therapy or pressors?
 
GHB overdose is something to consider. Although it does seem kinda unlikely given the setting and the obvious suspicious head trauma a few days previous. I wouldn't put my money on it but its just a thought to throw in the mix given the labile GCS, haemodynamic instability and profuse sweating.
 
I've read the discussion thus far a couple times, and pre-eclampsia keeps crawling out of the muck and mire.

Dr. Brown, LMP?
 
Thats Brown MBChB, FANZCA, FJCICM to you :D

No, its not a GHB OD or a head injury and the vital signs were recorded without significant intervention eg fluids or pressors.
 
MrBrown said:
what makes you think that
Click to expand...

They are on the short list of things that cause night sweats. The girl is 15, and most Acute Lyphoblastic Luekemias (ALL) occur in children. Acute Myleogenous Leukemia has an age of onset at about 15. (AML)


MrBrown said:
and would a wbc of 19 10/9 per litre high band and segmented neutrophils and high erythrocyte sedimentation rate help with a diagnosis at all
Click to expand...

No, it just confounds it more.

Increased WBC can be almost any inflammatory disorder and non specific. However, hyper segmented neutrophils are found in megagloblastic anemias.
(often from vit B deficency) There is not often neurological changes in folate deficency, which might point to a pregnancy or malabsorbtion type event. but then there would be leukopenia most likely.

Then you add in banded neutrophils which are not fully matured and it brings you to an event that gives way to a massive immune reaction.

RBC sedementation could be caused by everything from pregnancy, to immune reaction (which we know we have) to polycythemia. (another potential indicator of AML or pre AML disease)

But getting away from lab values again,

sepsis does not always present with fever. meningitis would be consistant with that.

baseball bat to the face suggests some of the normal nasal or oral flora could be in a compartment it doesn't belong in, and a hematoma somewhere could really feed bacteria.

It is not the blood count I would be interested in, it would be the lumbar puncture. Particularly looking for bacteria or a decrease in glucose. a Urine HCG would also help a lot.

The more I think about the epidemiology, the more i like meningitis. (When hearing hoof beats think horses not zebras right?)

Cranio-facial trauma
Increased WBC includeding banded neutrophils
Low or no fever
Mental status changes
Night sweats

Could still be pregnant, but the physical exam findings of such were not listed. Especially with a previous RH sensitivity.

Need some more specific info than a blood test that simply adds to the list.
 
Veneficus said:
It is not the blood count I would be interested in, it would be the lumbar puncture. Particularly looking for bacteria or a decrease in glucose. a Urine HCG would also help a lot.
Click to expand...

Could you expound on your "decrease in glucose" thoughts a bit? I'm just a nitwit EMT-B. How does a lumbar puncture lead to low glucose?
 
LMP was about a month ago and has been normal supposedly
 
Not that I could treat anything beyond BLS protocols in this case...it sounds like it could be an unrelated heart issue, but the pupils are the windows to the brain...something that would effect both things? How about a spinal cord/brain stem injury..that would throw all systems out of whack..brain..heart...core temperature regulation...

Then again it could just be an infection...just my two pennies worth
 
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