2nd AA Degree? Help!

[BillyMan]

Ok. Right now I am a Senior in high school. But at the same time I am a Sophomore at my local community college. My state (Washington) has a program called Running Start, where I take classes at my local community college tuition free and get credits both towards my high school diploma and my AA. My goal has always been to get my AA in Paramedicine, but here is where I am stuck. The college that I go to right now doesn't have a paramedicine program, yet I am already halfway towards an AA at that college. So I figured that I might as well finish it there before I get my EMT-B certification and then go on to get my AA in Paramedicine. So, my question to all of you is, what would be a degree or possibly even a CoC that would help me best in a career in EMS? Right now I am on track for a degree in Business Management, as I figured that leadership and proffessional business skills would be appreciated in years down the road once I work my way up the ladder. But the college I'm going to now also has Degrees and CoC's in things like Med. Assisting, Health Occupations Core, CNA CoC, etc. Would any of these give me an edge?

Thanks for any input guys. Especially to everybody who read the whole thing. ^_^

 

[Ridryder911]

Are you sure about the applied art degree in CNA? The reason, any legitimate degree is in applied science and definitely not as a CNA, when a RN only requires an associate degree. The same as health occupations in what?

Now, if you are discussing Technology classes that applies to colleges, I understand that.

To your question, get any accredited degree, then apply your basics to it, and most you will take is a few required co-requisite courses and Paramedic courses, you will have the Paramedic degree. Get a academic and career counselor at the college.

As an instructor, I will forewarn you though, most EMS does not hire those less than 21 -23 years of age. Due to insurance and emotional development.

Good luck in your studies,

R/r 911

 

[BillyMan]

Are you sure about the applied art degree in CNA? The reason, any legitimate degree is in applied science and definitely not as a CNA, when a RN only requires an associate degree. The same as health occupations in what?

Now, if you are discussing Technology classes that applies to colleges, I understand that.

To your question, get any accredited degree, then apply your basics to it, and most you will take is a few required co-requisite courses and Paramedic courses, you will have the Paramedic degree. Get a academic and career counselor at the college.

As an instructor, I will forewarn you though, most EMS does not hire those less than 21 -23 years of age. Due to insurance and emotional development.

Good luck in your studies,

R/r 911

Hmm. Thanks for the advice. I def. don't want to become a CNA. I was just looking for the best degree that would help me in the field down the road and the requirements for that degree were classes like Med Terminology and Patient care so I assumed they would help. Also, I know that right now I totally have a lack of a good counselor. On one end I have my high school counselor who doesn't know jack and on the other end i have my college counselor who isn't much better and they are always conflicting on what classes I should take etc. So I know at least on my part I need to get that squared away ASAP.

Also about the age thing. I do think that the 21-23 age limit does make sense, however I also (personally) don't see why it would be an issue seeing as I could just as easily join the Navy and become a Corpsman and see some way more gruesome things if I got deployed to Iraq. Which to be honest I have considered. And the program entry requirement is only 18 years old?

So hypothetically if I did undergo the EMT-B training right after my Senior year I would be almost 20 once I got done with it. Are you still telling me that I would have trouble finding a job with an EMS service that mostly ran transports? Honestly though I don't know how insurance works, but I can also say that in the 2+ years I have had my license I have never been in an accident or gotten a ticket or in any trouble with the law period.

Thanks for answering these questions for me and if it sounds like I'm trying to prove you wrong or mock you or anything like that I'm really sorry that isn't what I am trying to do. But being a Paramedic is all I really wanted to do and now that you're telling me I might have to wait a few extra years really scares me.:huh:

 

[VentMedic]

Are you sure about the applied art degree in CNA? The reason, any legitimate degree is in applied science and definitely not as a CNA, when a RN only requires an associate degree. The same as health occupations in what?

Many of the "certificate" programs are now actually offering A.A.S. degrees for those that are forward looking into a Bachelors degree or higher. Medical Assisting is definitely in that category as well as Patient Care Tech and massage therapist. This affords the student an opportunity to get a decent paying entry level job while continuing their education. The health occupations core A.A. degree is also helpful for those that may not have made up their mind for their Bachelors. It may also achieve completion of prerequisites for the bachelors in RT, ST, OT or PT which are very heavy in the sciences.

The core should be heavy on the sciences though. Survey science classes are short sighted such as "nursing survey of chemistry". If your program allows, go for the science classes that are acceptable in all professions, medical or otherwise, for easy tranfer in different majors. As Ridryder911 mentioned, a career counselor can better assist you.

A PCT and/or EMT could still get a job in a hospital at a young age. The hospital may also provide additional training such as EKG and phlebotomy. Many EMTs (and some paramedics) rarely get a chance, or take it if offered, to master these skills on a large number of patients. This would also give you the opportunity to interact with many professsions including EMS. The work schedule might also allow for college classes easier.

A good foundation of skills and education will prepare you for many opportunities.

Sounds like you are already on your way to establishing that.
Good Luck!

 

[Ridryder911]

I understand more now, as long as one continues onward. There are more and more institutions not honoring such degrees, so be cautious and continue onward. Some areas are no longer honoring associates as a degree rather as a certificate or calling them a technical degree.
Vent described some good opportunity in hospital setting. As I described a degree is better than nothing, definitely when applying or competing against someone. Hospital experience in my area is much better looked upon than even having experience as a basic. Since more and more emphasis is placed upon critical care transport and advanced field care.
Again, we wish the best of luck, hang in there and you will succeed.

R/r 911

 

[Guardian]

I was hired as a paramedic to run 911 calls at 19 years old. They put me on trucks with emt-basics. Now, I would be nervous about hiring a paramedic that young. I wouldn't want them to risk a promising career because of a mistake made due to immaturity or inexperience. I would interview them and decide on a case by case basis. My point is, it could be challenging finding a good 911 job as a paramedic that young, but certainly not impossible. If you're in a position to get your paramedic cert, then do it. It will all work out in the end. Just don't necessary expect to run 911 calls on a single ALS truck right away.

In terms of a major, do what you enjoy the most. It doesn't really matter what you major in as long as you keep a few things in mind. One, make sure you're taking classes in math, english, sciences, social sciences, etc. that will transfer to a four year degree. If you don't want a four year degree, then you should rethink it, because trust me, you do want a four year degree. Two, make sure to take any prerequisite classes for programs you would like to enter. For example, chemistry, biology, and A&P for paramedic. And three, don't do any career certificate programs (CoC?) unless it is in a specific field you would like to enter, like paramedic. Otherwise, it's just a waste of time and money and won't really impress anyone down the line.

 

[BossyCow]

Both my boys did the running start program in Washington state and it can be a great program. I wouldn't worry about declaring a major or going for a specific degree or certification at this time. Just get as much of the basics down and done. Your math classes, biology and chemistry 101, Psych101, English 101 & 111. The core classes are the ones most difficult to get into in the 4 year institutions but are pre-req's for most of the upper level classes you will need.

If you go for one of the curriculums you mentioned, you will waste valuable credit hours taking classes you won't need. Use the state's dime to get as many of your pre-req's done.

Where in WA are you located?

 

[BillyMan]

Wow, thanks for all the replies!

At my College CoC = Certificate of Completion.
And I am located in Southwest Washington near Longview

Initially the only degree I wanted was an AA in Paramedicine. But I was also curious to know if say, I got an AA in Business Administration and then became a certified Paramedic would I get any further down the road or just be in the same boat as if my AA was just in Paramedicine? I don't know how the infrastructure of an EMS system works, and I'm sure that they are all different, but I'm just curious on which path I should take to get the highest up on the ladder as possible. (On paper that is, as I know my performance and dedication in the field would also be a major contributing factor.)

And VentMedic you make it sound like I almost HAVE to have a B.A. Is this true? I was actually under the impression that many people in EMS don't even have an AA degree. After looking around I had a hard time finding many Universities or Institutions that offered a 4 year degree in Paramedicine.

Does anybody have any educational statistics in this field?

 

[Ridryder911]

One does not "have" to have an AAS in most states (there are about 10 or so that does require it).

Take it from an old timer.. You want a career or a job? When competing against someone for the same position, money, etc... which would you hire for the price?

Be wise, stay in school.. business degree is always helpful for supervisory positions, etc.

R/r 911

 

[BillyMan]

One does not "have" to have an AAS in most states (there are about 10 or so that does require it).

Take it from an old timer.. You want a career or a job? When competing against someone for the same position, money, etc... which would you hire for the price?

Be wise, stay in school.. business degree is always helpful for supervisory positions, etc.

R/r 911

You are very right on that one. With 100% honesty I can say that I am looking at a career here. Of course I am young and it is possible that I could change my mind, but I sincerely doubt it. Also, I was thinking about the Business Degree just for the fact that most EMS are actual businesses trying to make a profit.

So Ridryder911, would you recommend both an AA in Paramedicine and Business Administration? From what I am seeing now having leadership skills and business smarts are great skills to have, not only in this field, but all other fields as well. But, would it really be worth the extra time to invest in a Business degree vs. just having that AA in Paramedicine? How many Paramedics out there actually have AA's?

 

[Ridryder911]

There is no real measure how many have an associate degree (degrees vary in type). The main point I believe that is made, is take as much as you can while you can. No one ever regrets education.

I will tell you, an associate degree is good, but only a stepping stone. In the medical field, business, and true professions associate degree is minimal to none. Not to degrade by far, but realistically. When in comparison to those with graduate, and doctoral levels (2 yrs) appears minimal.

Again, take advantage of the education level. There are B.S. (undergraduate) degrees in EMS that includes the Paramedic course, and even masters (graduate) that focus in business, education, research speciality.

Like Vent and I have discussed, talk to a guidance or career counselor at a college/university. Even if they don't have the program, they should be able to steer you towards the right path. You can also contact a college with an EMS program, discuss with the program coordinator, or assigned counselor. They can give you ideas, steer you toward a direction.

Like you described, you are young. Truthfully, you may not even like or desire EMS within two years, as many come to find out. It is nothing like they expected or wanted to pay for with time, money and interest then again...

Good luck in your schooling, finish as much as you can, let us know, if there is anything we can assist you in.

R/r 911

 

[BillyMan]

Yeah. I think the best thing to do right now is simply find myself a good guidance counselor to get me through all of the decision making. But thanks for all of your help. I really appreciate it.

 

[BossyCow]

Get your school counselor or running start advisor to look at Central Washington University's paramedic program. They have both the non-degreed certification and a full B.S. in Paramedicine. While the Bachelor Degree isn't required and many in the field don't have it, most of the new blood applying for the new openings are coming in with it. I've seen dual degrees in Paramedicine and Fire Science as the most popular combination.

Fire and EMS are becoming very competitive fields. It's not uncommon for a FF/EMT-P to be one of over a hundred applicants for less than 5 openings.

In my opinion, the dual AA's are a waste of valuable, state paid credit hours. Go for your 4 year degree. Officer positions are now requiring them in most systems in Washington state. So, unless you want to work for a private ambulance company with lousy benefits and no real opportuntity for advancement, get your 4 year degree. Otherwise you will be working for a boss who did.

 

[VentMedic]

As long as you are still young, you have a chance to obtain the classes necessary to go in any direction. Since more and more professions are getting away from the certicate mentality like the medical assisting profession, colleges are offering more degree options. Also since the majority of healthcare professions are a minimum of a Bachelors now and some are entry at Masters, community colleges are offering the 2 year degrees that prep you for entry into the Bachelors requirements for many or any healthcare professions. There are over 300 colleges (not "trade" schools) that also offer A.S. degrees for Paramedic and with a few extra credits it can become an A.A.S. which is easily transferrable to a 4 year program. The difference between the A.S. and A.A.S is ease of entrance to a 4 year program to satisfy the liberal arts part. A college degree of any type is not required to be a paramedic unfortunately.

The business degree will definitely be helpful in almost every profession and is a great compliment to your resume.

As long as you have a solid foundation of science, math and English, you will have good flexibility if you want to advance your education and professional status. There are hundreds of careers in the medical profession that also offer a lot of job satisfaction. However, most do require a strong college background. Of course, they are not in the spotlight for heroics like the Paramedic, but to the patients they service, they are true heroes.

I like to be forward thinking in education. In Respiratory Therapy, the "slackers" who were given 5 years to advance their credentials are sweating because Dec 2007 is their deadline. Some may lose their ICU status. The Associates (which many RT programs are A.A.S. for transferring to the B.S. program) is the minimum. However, our hospital now is currently only looking at RRTs with B.S. degrees (prefer Respiratory but Business (B.A.) is great for now) for employment, since that is their projected educational requirement within 5-10 years. Our shift leaders have either MBA or M.S. behind their names and our department head is a Ph.D. My credentials are listed in my profile. Physical Therapy is another example of a rapid riser that if one didn't keep up, one could be just an "assistant" with a Bachelors or Masters.

I don't think EMS educational standards are going to rise as fast as the other health professions but stay flexible with quality classes.

BossyCow brought up a good point. Fire services like their firefighters now to have a degree in Fire Science for advancment and even entry level employment. The services in Florida are very competitive and also have many of the ALS EMS services.

 

[BillyMan]

It is true that a higher degree is needed for just about any position in the medical field. I was looking at my Transcript and I noticed that I am only 3 pre-req classes away from being able to get into the Nursing Program at my school. I figured getting an AA in Nursing and becoming an RN as well as a EMT-B at the same time would get me an excellent starting position. Though my family would probably think I was nuts giving up a fairly high paying RN job for an EMT-B<_<. But they don't understand why I'm drawn to being a Paramedic. To me it's about lives, not money.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

As an instructor, I will forewarn you though, most EMS does not hire those less than 21 -23 years of age. Due to insurance and emotional development.

Good luck in your studies,

R/r 911

Funny, my career started @ 18 1/2 yrs. old as a basic, and was a practicing medic 4 months before my 20th birthday. An age requirement may be part of an individual program, but unless you live in an area that has legislation of such, try not to bust the kid's bubble. And the emotional development...I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to label all who are less than 21 as emotionally unable to handle the job. I have EMT's at my department who've done this much longer than my 16 years, who are much less "emotionally ready" for the job than the new guy we hired three weeks ago.

 

[BillyMan]

Hey guys, I just thought that I would update.

So I finally settled it all out with my advisors and now I am set to graduate next Winter with an AA in Business/Accounting and I am going to transfer to Washington State University to finish my Bachelor's in Accounting.

During the Summer break between Spring and Fall quarters I am set to take my EMT-B course. So if all goes right I will be working as an EMT-B while finishing my last two years of my BA degree.

Thanks for all the info guys you really made me think long and hard about my future!

 

[BossyCow]

Spokane Fire has an awesome residency program. You might check into that if you are going to be spending summers in eastern Washington. Are you still looking at a career in EMS and Fire?

 

[disassociative]

Ah; the beauty of Gen Ed credits. If your state is anything like TN; there is a mandated system(board of regents, etc) which requires transferability of general education credits between all universities and accredited colleges in your state(e.g. Eng Comp I & II, Math 1010, etc; always double check on 3 credit biologies though!).

Anyways, I would encourage you to check out various colleges and universities in your area, grab some ugrad catalogs, find something you are interested in, and then speak to a student advisor with regard to the credits you already have and how best to adapt them to the chosen curriculum.

As for RN, A.A.S., they have no problem getting a job anywhere that I know of; however, if both an RN, A.A.S. and an RN, B.S.N. apply for the same position on equal standing; who do you think they are going to usually go with?

Keep in mind; there is no such thing as a 2 yr RN program anymore; as you have all the Gen Ed credits, etc(which you probably have already completed). However, I must infer that you will spend just about as much time on an RN, A.A.S. or any Applied Science for that matter as you would on your B.S.N.

I began my Gen Ed with an RN, A.A.S. program; and had a 4 yr B.S.N. app in as a backup; as I planned to transition anyways. I was fortunately, by the grace of God accepted to both programs; and when I weighed the TRUE span of the coursework, given my aspirations to become B.S.N.; I went ahead and went into nursing upper division(after good ole Math 1530: Prob & Statistics of course). I am happier than a rooster in a three story chicken coop!

Aristotle once said, "Education is an ornament in prosperity and a refuge in adversity."

Good luck in your studies.

 

[BillyMan]

Spokane Fire has an awesome residency program. You might check into that if you are going to be spending summers in eastern Washington. Are you still looking at a career in EMS and Fire?

Ok I lied a little, I am actually going to be going to the Vancouver campus most likely since I am relatively close and can probably stay living at home for free vs. the huge costs of an aprtment, food, yada, yada.

And to be honest I am not really sure if I want to be a member of the FD or a private company. I have heard so many conflicting views on it, that it is hard to chose. I've talked to several EMTs who said they liked the private companies much better, but then again I've talked to other who like the FD more.

Then again, I know this is going to sound really ignorant, but I just found out that the commissioner of my local FD is actually the brother of the retired cheif of police who I happen to know pretty well since he "has lunch" with my grandmother all of the time. Do you guys think that is some sort of rare opportunity I should take advantage of? Is that ethical really to use a connection such as that?

I know that the FD's are willing to give you the EMT-B education but what are the usual attached strings that come with that?