Your Reaction to Increased Education Requirements

[Firechic]

I believe that more education will turn our "job" into a profession. We are a part of the medical community, a community that highly values education. I think once we get up to par with that aspect, we will gain more acknowledgment and respect within the medical field. Until then, I think we are still considered "ambulance drivers" by many.

 

[Stevo]

while i agree with the sentiment, i also live in the real world Firechic

let's say they did away with the first responder level tomorrow

how many are left to 'drive the ambulance' ?

~S~

 

[Ridryder911]

I highly agree with you and part of that comes with removing the mentality of training versus education. To really represent a profession you must have a body to be professionals though. Having texts written at the junior high level and worse yet have to be because the majority of the work force does not have above a sophomore reading level or comprehension.

Making sure that even entry points have the basic education requirements as any other health care profession has. Basic science, algebra, psychology and college level English composition. This only would not just strengthen our basic level, but as well demonstrate that we can logically represent ourselves.

I have been Chairperson and set up State and National ad hoc meetings, I can assure you the general educational level of most EMT's is very lacking and has a way to be desired. This is similar to what the nursing profession has to do... prove themselves, not only in the workplace, but having equivalent educational standards as well.

Hopefully with time and encouragement this profession can truly mature.

R/r 911

 

[MMiz]

EMS was initially a reactionary profession. EMS would respond, follow protocol, and treat what was seen. They were trained to perform skills, and often performed them with great skill.

More recently we're seeing a move to actually diagnosing and treating a patient, with an EMS professional / medic having additional knowledge and anatomy, physiology, and a better understanding of the medicine of EMS.

I have a degree in History, Social Studies, and English, and am certified to teach. This would require 120 credits in college. I've taken the traditional courses in History, English, Geography, Economics, and Political Sciences, and but also have taken many additional courses. There was two Math classes, two classes in speech and speech acquisition. I've taken Geology, Psychology, and Sociology. I've taken Art History, Biology, and Environmental Sciences. There there are those four Spanish classes I took, in addition to Linguistics. These classes have almost nothing to do with teaching, but provide a teaching candidate who has a great academic understanding of the world and society.

To be an EMT I took a course to become an EMT. There was one day concentrated on anatomy and physiology in general. I passed the national registry on my first try.

One of the best Paramedic programs in the state requires:

- EMT-Basic
- Anatomy & Physiology I
- Anatomy & Physiology II
- EMS Communication
- "Paramedic Classes"

Now I understand that there is a lot crammed into the paramedic classes, but I feel like we're lacking.

Where is:
- Psychology and Sociology
- Speech
- Writing courses
- Advanced A & P


I think there is a need for more, but currently the industry/field isn't ready to go in that direction. There is little money in EMS, and much of the country is still on a volunteer program. Around here when one uses "career" in front of a title it refers to a FF/Medic working for a municipality.

I believe that EMS is still seen as a splint and transport service. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked "Will there be someone in the back with him?" I see a huge part of this as being a general lack of understanding and public education.

I'm not sure I have a solution, but I'd like to see medics gain additional training and knowledge. I'm not sure how anyone can argue against that.

 

[Stevo]

nobody is going to argue that ems could use an educational tune up Matt

yet as is stands isn't America served by more vollies than anything else?

if not in terms of populance, surely in terms of area served

as such it becomes a choice, would the general public like less of us that are of a higher caliber, or more of us that are not

a valid real world Q.....no?

that's the cost/benifit ratio i;ve been asking since you've started this thread, and i'm sorry but i don't see where ems can have it's cake and eat it too

~S~

 

[gradygirl]

Ok, this may have been posted somewhere else because I remember seeing it.

The title is Fewer Paramedics Means More Lives Saved. So, fewer, more highly trained medics=more patients living.

 

[disassociative]

Take a look: http://www.caems-academy.com/paramediccourses.htm

This is just a random result of a Google search. I feel that Pre-Paramedic
or who knows even Pre-EMT courses(First Responder As Pre-Req would be nice)
should be widely available. For instance; there is Pre-Med, Pre-Nursing, but you
don't see too much abt Pre-Paramed; isn't EMS just as important?

Also; in regards to raising academic requirements; I think I agree with most
everyone here when I say, "Absolutely".

Also, I ran across this page:

http://www.blinn.edu/twe/mhs/

 

[Firechic]

while i agree with the sentiment, i also live in the real world Firechic

let's say they did away with the first responder level tomorrow

how many are left to 'drive the ambulance' ?

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment.

Ridryder911 ~ You mentioned that nursing had to still prove itself as a profession. I was under the impression that they have already accomplished this by fulfilling the criteria required of a profession. The history of nursing is similar to that of EMS; however, EMS is still in its infancy by comparison.
I think the biggest detriment to the evolution of prehospital care into a true profession is the attitude of the people who are working in EMS. I know this is a wide generalization, but I have heard more opinions like Stevo's rather than Matt's or Ridryder's.

 

[disassociative]

Ok; let's take this in a slightly different direction:

Are there any 4 yr (DEGREE not Cert) Paramedic programs offered in your
areas?

 

[Stevo]

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment.

no i don't think i did Firechic

while i value education as the crucial element of validating any profession, i also live in the real world

90% of ems calls are a taxi ride, it's the other 10% where we actually make a difference

there is no need for higher levels of intervention for much of what we do, however it would be a good start to educate the public to the value of paramedic intercept for that 10% (actually they get called in more, but turned around)

that would be a worthy and realistic goal for ems, and quite likely a good stepping stone toward what posters in this thread desire

the evolution of ems is going to take time, public awareness would need to be key imho

to legislate overnight requirements would be leaving the system shorthanded, and the brownshoes who have been juggling ciricculums in the recent past have produced just this result

just look at what they've done to the I level. they obviously haven't had every state on the same page either, have they? individual states are cherrypicking what they'd like, and it's not working too well for us

if ems wishes to progress, WE need to take it back to make these desicions collectively under a realistic orginization that seeks realistic goals

~S~

 

[gradygirl]

90% of ems calls are a taxi ride, it's the other 10% where we actually make a difference

That's the sad truth. The epidemic in Hartford of "superfluous" calls are made by immigrants who have been under-/mis-informed about how the emergency system is to be used.

A picture on The Lunatick's site drives the point home. Just look at the sign in the window.

 

[Firechic]

while i agree with the sentiment, i also live in the real world Firechic

a valid real world Q.....no?

while i value education as the crucial element of validating any profession, i also live in the real world

Congratulations on living in the real world!
I agree with a few of the previous comments you have made and disagree with the majority; however, it is YOUR opinion and I respect the difference. You and I will not see eye to eye, so please do not patronize my opinion or the "world" I live in. Your assumptions are wrong.
Please leave it at that, thank you.

Are there any 4 yr (DEGREE not Cert) Paramedic programs offered in your
areas?

Not a 4 year degree for a bachelors in Paramedicine, but a 2 year associates degree. My state also has Certified Paramedics and Licensed Paramedics. No real difference except in education level.

 

[Stevo]

Please leave it at that, thank you.

another time, another place , and i'd gladly debate your views Firechic

i'd even buy the first round...

until then we can agree to disagree

peace out

~S~

 

[Flight-LP]

Ok; let's take this in a slightly different direction:

Are there any 4 yr (DEGREE not Cert) Paramedic programs offered in your
areas?

Both UT - San Antonio and Texas Tech have bachelor's level degree programs in EMS.............

 

[Glorified]

http://www.smccme.edu/catalog/2006-2007/index.php?section=5&navid=121&docid=320

There's a link to my local paramedic program's curriculum. It's an Associate in Applied Science deree. They require 6 months as an EMT-B and 50 documented service calls. Education is important, and as professionals we should care about it. If the minimum education level is increased we should be grateful that we are respected more. Compensation should be second on our mind. It's not like we do it for the money anyways.

 

[Stevo]

t's not like we do it for the money anyways.

and that statement, Glorified is what truely makes us health cares orphaned child...

~S~

 

[Glorified]

and that statement, Glorified is what truely makes us health cares orphaned child...

~S~

My name is irrelevant to that statement. It is merely a nickname I chose shortened from Glorifiedg, a song from the pearl jam album vs. about americas obsession with firearms. I was sick of using glorifiedg so i shortened it. It has nothing to do with my belief in some low pay kind of martyrdom.

In fact, this wasn't what I was trying to say. I am just trying to say that yes, education is a good thing, regardless of compensation. I'm not saying we shouldnt be compensated for higher education, we should. I just meant that education in and of itself is a good thing.

 

[fm_emt]

http://www.smccme.edu/catalog/2006-2007/index.php?section=5&navid=121&docid=320

There's a link to my local paramedic program's curriculum. It's an Associate in Applied Science deree. They require 6 months as an EMT-B and 50 documented service calls. Education is important, and as professionals we should care about it. If the minimum education level is increased we should be grateful that we are respected more. Compensation should be second on our mind. It's not like we do it for the money anyways.

I would like that. Unfortunately the only programs around here are basically "medic mills." :-(

 

[Stevo]

My name is irrelevant to that statement.

i'm merely addressing you by your handle Glorified

americas obsession with firearms.

the moderators insist guns have nothing to do with ems , sorry....no comment

I just meant that education in and of itself is a good thing.

yes it is, however i'll add here that who or what entity imparts it is relevant, in Vermont we are seeing a steady increase in courses being rather displaced from the testing being administered.


if any course offered results in a 50% failure rate , including seasoned personel , i'd say it's time to write the legislature

~S~

 

[Glorified]

Yeah, definitely. I agree.